Meeting two old ladies

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by RGregor, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. RGregor

    RGregor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Bavaria
    Hi folks!

    Here's a little story about a special meeting I had last month.
    I've been a BMW maniac as long as I can remember.
    My father bought his /5 when I was about 8 years old and I knew instantly: "when I'm old enough ..."
    And of course racing with airheads was most interesting to me.
    Helmut Daehne on the Nordschleife or on the isle of man.
    Years later I heard about the Butler & Smith racing activities in the US.
    The legendary race at Daytona.
    Read about the bikes and the man who built them.
    But only sparse information and few photos were available in the time before the internet.
    And in germany the story is still nearly unknown.

    Then I found this thread here in the forum:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244174

    And there it was: the last remaining BMW Superbike from '76.
    Beautifully restored to its former glory.
    And I learned that the bike (and a second BMW Superbike built by Udo Gietl) now is with BMW Mobile Tradition in Munich, my home town.

    Normally private persons are not allowed to see the historic collection at MT. I thought "why not try" and so I wrote an email to BMW MT if it would be possible to see these bikes.
    Two weeks later my telephone rang and it was MT: "Of course you can see the bike, let's make an appointment".
    A few weeks later we entered the "holy ground". Mr. Helm, the BMW expert for post '69 bikes led us. And that was really crazy.
    Passing several historic race cars we entered the MT shop, where a BMW M1 and a CSL were on a car lift.
    Walking around an F1 turbo engine of the 80ies on a palette we came to the bikes standing in the corner besides others and a 2002 Turbo.
    Felt like christmas and birthday together.

    The Butler&Smith 90S has been already completely restored by MT, as is their standard procedure with "new" models they buy.
    However, Bruce's paint job had been so good they kept it.

    It was a great sensation to see the bikes, see the details described in books or magazine articles and to find new interesting details never heard of.
    Here are some pictures of the bikes in their new home.

    Attached Files:

    #1
  2. RGregor

    RGregor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Bavaria
    In the background on the right side another BMW M1 and in the center you can see the turbo charger of the F1 engine.

    Attached Files:

    #2
  3. RGregor

    RGregor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Bavaria
    Some engine details. Beautifully restored.

    Attached Files:

    #3
  4. RGregor

    RGregor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Bavaria
    And the other old lady, #36. The rear shocks are rebuilt at the moment :-))

    Attached Files:

    #4
  5. RGregor

    RGregor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Bavaria
    I learned that #83 will be shown in the BMW museum from next year on.
    So if you ever come to Munich, make an appointment with the old lady. It's worth the money.

    Greetings from Munich

    Rudi

    PS: on one wall the standard BMW tool equipment was installed and a set of exhaust pipes hang there.
    "Where do these belong to"? "These? They are from Walter Zeller's RS 54" Sure, dumb question.

    PPS: thanks Bruce.
    #5
  6. raindog

    raindog dharma bum

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Oddometer:
    16,996
    Location:
    Naples, Long Beach
    very cool.
    thanks!
    #6
  7. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Oddometer:
    13,742
    Location:
    chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
    Nice pics,Id love to see their collection as well.
    #7
  8. JohnTM

    JohnTM I suck toes

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2001
    Oddometer:
    29,206
    Location:
    Cornersville, TN
    Is that frame strut going THROUGH the velocity stack? :eek1
    #8
  9. soyanarchisto

    soyanarchisto Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,427
    Location:
    Sunny PDX
    I was wondering that too
    #9
  10. funhouse

    funhouse Overdue

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,044
    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    any horsepower loss was more than made up for by the reduced frame flex.....a product of doubling the horsepower and use of huge (for the time) tires......the frame/swingarm/forks all had to be reinforced.....the bike ran in the low 11's and 118mph....hot stuff in the early days of Superbike racing....Bruce
    #10
  11. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Oddometer:
    8,691
    Location:
    Jackson's Bottom Oregon
    I was wondering how the velocity stack was assembled. Thinking about it, it seems like everything would have been assembled but for the brace, which was then threaded through the hole in the stack and bolted on.

    It appears that when they built #36 they decided to customize the intake ports and angled the carbs out rather than in towards the tranny.
    #11
  12. kbasa

    kbasa Roubaix! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Oddometer:
    72,371
    Location:
    Marin County, California
    I doubt it's a hole. I'd bet it's a slot cut into the inboard side of the stack.

    I thought those bikes had the motor mounts raised in front to provide more cornering clearance, but the mounts appear to be pretty standard.

    When I've dealt with the guys at MT, they strike me as enthusiasts just like us, only with the coolest job they could ever imagine.
    #12
  13. funhouse

    funhouse Overdue

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,044
    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    1: They are holes, not slots......and was one of the most time consuming parts of the restoration.......one set of stacks was sacrificed to make the final set....a big slot in the first set was taped up to determine where the opening was located on the final set ... all established by where the stack rested when fully tightened on the carb......enlarged with a file until the fit was perfect..the brace has to be removed to check the oil..and as for engine location, it sits an inch forward in the chassis....there is a spacer behind the transmission output shaft.....and the engine was short-rodded so the heads are moved in about 2" total....Bruce
    #13
  14. kbasa

    kbasa Roubaix! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Oddometer:
    72,371
    Location:
    Marin County, California
    Wowsers!

    :eek1
    #14
  15. mark1305

    mark1305 Old Enough To Know Better

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,296
    Location:
    Merritt Island, FL
    Check out the linkage arrangement on the front brake of #36.

    It looks like BMW engineered a floating caliper rig that transfers thrust from the caliper under braking upward into the fork tube - to counter brake dive, maybe. If that's the case, that is some fantastic attention to design details.
    #15
  16. ADK

    ADK master of the casual pace

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Oddometer:
    8,251
    Roger DeCoster tested that back in the '70s on his works Suzuki.I wonder who originated the idea?
    #16
  17. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Oddometer:
    8,691
    Location:
    Jackson's Bottom Oregon
    It wasn't bmw that came up with that one, but the racing team at the time. It's purpose was to eliminate brake dive and I guess it worked pretty well.
    #17
  18. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,736
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    The anti-dive was added partway through the season ('78 I think) so there are a few pictures of the same bike without it. Todd Shuster (fabricator for the B&S race team) made it. The cutaway stacks, though, are not original to the bike in '70s trim. None of the carbureted B&S race motors had stock inward-facing intakes, so that interference wasn't a problem.
    #18
  19. funhouse

    funhouse Overdue

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,044
    Location:
    Santa Barbara
    The bike changed every time it was raced by B&S during the '76 season...stock brakes worked at Daytona but took a dump at the second race, Laconia....I'd have to ask Udo if he changed the carb/intake setup during the '76 season or if it was a change made in '77 by Johnny's BMW/Bakersfield......since the bike won one AMA National (Daytona) when fielded by B&S and one AMA National when entered by Johnny, modifications made afte B&S sold the bike to Johnny are historically valid......and BMW must feel the same as they have not returned the bike to its '76 Daytona-winning spec but rather have left it as it was when Johnny quit racing it and put it in the back of his showroom -- where I found it.......and the John Long bike made by Udo/Todd was way faster'n than the old B&S bikes.....it was made up of lessons learned on the B&S bikes....the long tubes on the anti-dive suspension are Cummins pushrods........Bruce
    #19
  20. RGregor

    RGregor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Bavaria
    Looking at the old pictures of the Daytona race I would say the intake setup of #83 is original.

    Rudi
    #20