melted shorai battery

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by jesusgatos, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    WOW... sure looks like an internal short to me... positive terminal in first pic was properly covered. with no damage showing in either cables that I can see.

    there were a few reports of early Shorai having internal connection issues, which have long been fixed.

    it's been several months now.... let us know how Shorai takes care of this... for more details on a motorcycle that caught on fire, follow LiFePO4 testing thread. should be towards first of thread.
    #21
  2. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

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    They never called me back.
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  3. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    Keep on them!....make them answer as to what went wrong with their product OR,as to what mod's that may have contributed to this overload.
    #23
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Long timer

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    More likely it's being overcharged. Swelling and distortion of battery cases is typically caused by either using them in a hot environment or more typically as a result of overcharging.
    I would look at the charging current.
    #24
  5. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    that's very strange... usually Shorai has excellent customer service. you need to call em again...

    I'd sure like to see that melted battery too...
    #25
  6. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

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    They did give me excellent customer service. They gave me a brand new battery, on the spot. They just didn't follow-up with me to have me bring the old battery back so we could do a post-mortem analysis. After reading more about those batteries, wouldn't buy another one. Looks like there are better options out there.

    I still have the battery. We can cut it up and take a look inside if you guys want to see what's going on in there.
    #26
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Long timer

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    Cutting it up will only show a cut up battery it won't do much if anything to identify the cause of the failure. As I said earlier I would be having a really good look at the input current I reckon that is the most likely cause (assuming it's not just a random failure from a production defect) and if it is you will have similar problems eventually with every battery you install.

    I see swollen batteries almost every day in my business and invariably it's as I said heat (not really applicable on a bike) or overcharging that is the cause.
    #27
  8. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    The lithiums are a little different to what you are used to with lead acid. With the shorai in particular there are 2 known causes of damage as shown in the pic

    The first is a production problem in the early units where 2 rails were too close together and they shorted internally causing excess heat and deformation of the case. Shorai explained this fully on line at another forum

    The second cause is undercharging of the battery causing a cell to fail. This then generates heat losses at that cell and deformation of the case. This is discussed in the lithium testing thread here on advrider

    With the shorai it is important the VR outputs 14.4v to get full charge. other brands such as AntiGravity are fine with a 14.2v VR output
    #28
  9. TeeVee

    TeeVee His mudda was a mudda!

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    bought a shorai for my buddy as a gift for his wr450. after two months of infrequent use, the thing bulged out like a balloon and was dead as dirt.

    called shorai and they replaced it without a question. 2nd battery worked fine for several months before he left for one year. he'll be back in a day or so and since he misses his wr like it was his left nut, i'm sure he'll be on it like stink on shit. can't wait to see what the battery is like after sitting for one year without a charger...
    #29
  10. rm_hm

    rm_hm Logging Road Cruiser

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    Cut that bastard open. I can't find a single pic on the net of shorai guts. I wan't to see what these foil pouches look like.
    #30
  11. deepcdiver

    deepcdiver Nobody Special

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    Looks like it came from a Boeing Dreamliner....
    #31
  12. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    incorrect ... undercharging will NOT cause a LiFePO4 battery to melt. discharging too low results in possible permanent damage to battery. although it's possible to recover battery if charged at .01C until battery voltage recovers to 12.8v or so. then charge can be raised to at lease .5C. preferably 1C charge rate.

    LiFePO4 li-ion batteries are inherently safe, unlike lithium cobalt li-ion used in Boeing 787. over charge a lithium cobalt battery by 1/2v over 4.2v full charged... battery could go into thermal runaway (explosion)

    vs LiFePO4 has to be subjected to wild abuse (overcharge) to cause to catch on fire. then event will be no where near the violent release of energy with lithium cobalt.

    most times you see a melted LiFePO4 battery, it was caused by a dead short, internal or external.

    LiFePO4 in 4s config as used in motorcycle is fully charged at 14.65v ... if there's an internal BMS used, voltage will drop to about 13.85v after sitting overnight. if volt drops to about 14.1v, then odds are there is no internal BMS.

    most charging systems put out 13.8v to 14.2v ... since full charge for LiFePO4 is 14.6v .. it's not possible to overcharge a LiFePO4 if your charging system is working properly.

    this chart is worth having around...

    [​IMG]
    #32