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Discussion in 'Trials' started by jjustj, Jan 5, 2010.
I think more facts are needed!!
Great, one more reason for more places to be shut down
Obviously the article is from one side of the fence and no smoking gun is presented (that I caught anyway). However, it sounds like the greenies had done ther homework and were able to document damage, if there's anything that will get them support it's actually being able to show how the damage was caused.
If in fact it was OHV and motorcycle induced then we just shot ourselves in the tires! Don't get me wrong, I'm no tree hugger, but having a good backround in how they work/think/conspire we can't give them any excuse to hit us with.
I agree with justj. That article was full of suppositions and accusations, with no real facts to support It's inflammatory content. The author and his or her sources obviously know nothing about the Trials community, Trials competitors, or the sport of Trials in general before they printed these damaging accusations.
Paper number plates? No competition permits?? Aw,
Makes me sad.
Oh great! The BLM and the mass media finally recognize that there is a difference between Trials bikes and motocross bikes, and accuse Trials riders.
How naive are the local BLM officials to have not realized that patrols are needed more than ever on holiday weekends?
As a resident of SoCal, and a citizen that uses our BLM and forest I have seen unprecedented and egregious co-opting of our right to ride in the past 20 or so years. The legal action by devotees of environmentalism caught off highway enthusiasts off guard, and through better campaigning, superior planning, and seemingly limitless money they have pushed us into smaller and smaller corners. Most recently a NY law maker has purposed banning of all OHV activity in the greater Moab area. This despite the citizens of UT being against it.
There is a bubbling resentment, and regardless of type bike used to churn up a few inches of topsoil, the message is the same. The message being "we" are getting close. Close to rebellion. There is a part of me that sees not a hooligan, but, a patriot. When has coddling any of these lunatic environmentalists gotten us anywhere? BRC, CORVA, and there ilk have been fairly ineffectual in fighting on their terms.
I advocate next year, an even bigger, raucous, and unruly group. Bring out all the "Rangers." They will need a national guard to reel us in. I'm so sick of the feminineization of our country.
You can move this rant to Jo Mama now....
Ok these are quotes from the article<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
The damage was not discovered until the Monday after Thanksgiving, when it was too late to determine who or what kind of motor bikes were involved, Brand said.
Does the fact that it WAS TOO LATE TO DETERMINE mean that the land has already healed itself from the Damage<o></o>
these jackasses rationalized that it was motorcycles <o></o>
because about 240 motocross riders were in town that weekend for sanctioned races
the races were at another location??? WTF!!! that is like saying that someone is a thief because of the color of their skin.<o></o>
Both types of bikes are capable of travel through sensitive terrain
so is a Fu(k!nG Prius<o></o>
everyone wants to protect the environment. but there are a few people out there who refuse to look at anything but what they feel is right. These people write articles like the one we are talking about here that are full of lies and opinion that are presented as Fact. To someone out side this fight it looks like we are all the bad guys who want to do nothing but destroy the world. I ride because I want to get out and enjoy the world and my bike gives me the ability to see more of it. I dont believe that my bike does any more damage than if I would of hiked the same distance. These environmentalist are sending a message that every time we ride we creating a scar that is going last for years. You know what, if I am doing so much damage, try to find my tracks from last weekend I dare you!!!
Can someone go see the damage and report back
(I dont think you will be able to find it)
Might not be the best course of action. Right now 2% of the people want to ride, 2% don't want us to ride, and 96% could care less. We start raising hell their numbers would go up substantially. We need to be very responsible, and lets face it lots aren't. I remember a few years back I had a ridding buddy over at my house and he took off down my yard that I had just planted grass on that was up about an inch and he left a big rut through the middle of it. People just don't think sometimes. I enjoy the outdoors through motorcycling, backpacking, bicycling, canoeing, etc. Motorcycles don't belong on every trail, lets try and keep the ones open we have and if someone destroys a natural area with their bike then we don't need to uphold them.
Slickrock trail was developed by motorcyclists, yet when ever i have ridden it on my trials bike, i get a few with attitude towards me, yet after messing around IG.. nose wheelies etc Most are envious and i try to engage them in conversation and answer questions.. I also offer additional water to them.
what would happen if 200 folks showed up just to ride it after paying their entrance fee.? Most likely , enough bad press to set back the efforts of those that try to preserve our riding areas for months if not longer.
Do what YOU can do to promote our sport. If you see some one doing something stupid, take the risk and point it out to them! Take their picture, post it where others can see! just a few random thoughts!
Your right 96% don't care or are swayed by the incessant drum beat of the environmentalist ideologue. They are not aware of the other side of the story because we have been woefully ineffective in articulating it and the specter of global warming has made a bunch of guys riding dirt bikes seem childish and unimportant.
Now that the global warming crowd seems to have lost it's head of steam, and so many of our liberties and freedoms are visibly under assault, now may very well be the time. Working with these people does not work. They hate us and everything else modern man does. Lets stop playing nice.
This is absolutely right. I felt driven out of the Uk because of the greenies and a society called the "Ramblers". Its almost impossible to ride off road in most area's of the UK now because of them. Bikers in the Uk are a funny lot, we are amongst the most dedicated bikers anywhere riding in all weathers and generally bad road conditions. But we stood by mostly and watched as our rights were erroded by this society that had larger numbers and political connections and refused to accept the right of choice. They appointed themselves guardians of all the outdoors areas and it was to be their way or the highway. "green laning" was (is) a fantastic way to get out amongst your country side and enjoy it but they are not content with allowing areas for motor vehicles to travel off road in any way shap or form. We are to be banned if they get their way, which might happen yet.
They latch themselves to the great global warming farce to gain even more power.
But lately a small organisation called the TRF (Trail riders fellowship) has countered them somewhat by giving a very measured response. Using laws (ancient and modern) that took alot of research and countering the greenies arguments with this and proven data. The TRF are environmentalists also just like all of us that ride off road. They do alot of work on trails to keep them from major errosion. Just like you folks in the US. But go out and ask what the general opinion is of off roaders and people will say, " a bunch of beer drinking yee ha's that come out for a weekend disturb the peace wreck the ground leave rubbish and leave. The TRF have gotten some very positive PR of late for the work they do and that they are just as enthusiastic about the environment as the "ramblers". This is how you need to fight em, shoot em down with facts and show people what you do for the environment too.
Guys, c'mon - the point of the article is that some motorcyclists somewhere screwed up, and did damage to a landscape that is really really really fragile. They messed up, and ideally they'd get punished for it. The worst thing we can do is get defensive about this particular incident - and "defensive" is exactly what it sounds like as soon as stuff like "they are patriots" and "it's just the greenies going with the global warming farce" gets thrown into the conversation. I'm embarassed when this kind of crap comes up in "debates" on these forums when they are at least private - nobody who doesn't see the value of off-road riding is likely to hang around AdvRider or TT for long - but when this kind of drivel makes its way into public discourse from the off-road community, our case is undermined to the point of complete failure to look like reasonable, intelligent adults.
Did anyone read the comments at the bottom of the article? I especially like the parts about how the "damage" was not reported until 3 weeks later, everyone interviewed had their comments taken out of context, no proof as to whom (or even what type of vehicles) did the "damage". Still bothers me that no one bothered to speak to the local Trials people (or it just wasn't reported) to give them a chance to defend themselves. Is the Utah Trials club even aware of this? I do not know any Utah Trials riders. JustJ? Grizzz? Gordy? You guys (or anyone else) know any???
The more nefarious contingent within the green movement (earth first, green peace), have created outrage. They have also created debate and illuminated their cause. All I'm saying is, perhaps high profile rebellion is what is needed to illuminate the tragedy of the American people being LOCKED OUT of their lands.
Oh, and I'm not defensive about my beliefs. My hatred and disgust for the enviro-mental movement is maturing and starting to form it's own unique character.
I went out with a gal once who was a big deal among the environmentalists. I was really on pins and needles worried that she was going to bust the waiters balls about was the tuna dolphin safe or something. She was actually really cool. We were in my SUV and she was interested in how good it was off road, etc. This was the lady that spearheaded the oil shore drilling ban in FL. They are just people that know how the game is played. They ask for the whole state to be made a wilderness area in order to get a little section through compromise. Motorcyclists do the same thing.
I believe in balance, and luckily where I live in SE KY (aka "sticks") there is a nice balance. We have a great riding area in the national forest (Red Bird) with over 100 miles of trails 30 minutes from my house, plus many other riding areas around. We also have Red River Gorge, in the same national forest, that is full of natural wonder (100 natural arches and countless rock formations)and is a wilderness area, as it should be.
I love Moab even though I have only been there once. I wasn't on a motorcycle, but did mtn bike Slickrock. I had a blast, but didn't feel like it would be much fun on a motorcycle (sure other areas would be). A lot of it is economics. Moab makes a lot of money from people doing the offroad thing on bikes and 4x4 so it stays open. In KY there is a bit of money generated from ORV so they welcome it. In CO there is more interest and money from the green (and ski) crowd, so they cater to that somewhat.
Perhaps I'm militantly untrustworthy of these folks. The radicalized at the tip of the spear that is. No, they are the enemy. We here in more densely populated areas of the country have nothing resembling balance. I'm not nice to them because I know what there agenda is. It is control of our lives. They wish us to recreate the way they deem nice and civil. They think the off road crowd, and folks riding on two wheels in general to be dolts. Cro-Magnon thrill seekers hell bent on earthly destruction. So, like the government, I will subtly and not so subtly subvert their paradigm, point out their hypocrisy, and where possible make them feel uncomfortable. They are the enemy.
That's exactly what they want you to do. They would love to put that in their next newsletter asking for donations. If you really want to keep your areas open you had better let the people like the AMA lawyers handle it, they know how the system works. You getting yourself arrested and going outlaw isn't helping, you are playing right into their hands.
So being good passive sheep we will stand by quietly and let our attourneys do the fighting? A winning approach is multi-factorial. It includes legislation, law suits, fund rasing and activism.
I think a new horizion is approaching. As our enconmomy contracts, the price of energy rises, and the folks realize that most of the enviros agenda is essentially anti american and anti capialist there will be a push back. A push to untilize our domestic energy sources, and realization that our natural resources arer there to be responsibly used. This is a great oportunity to ride the wave back into many areas we have been locked out of.
This will require more than just defense. Recently in N. Cal a very popular OHV park was to be closed. On the eve of it's closure a very large and loud group showed up to protest this. They were able to get the media out which put pressure on the state and a stay was placed on it's closure. Which by the way was because the enviros were worried about runoff to a creek that is DRY. As in NO WATER! That my friend is what I'm talkin about.
As far as subverting. Well, subtle stuff. Down here, ,many trails were closed to all but licenced vehicles. The enviros figured this would keep the knobies out. So, we dual sported our dirt bikes and we ride. They put up FAKE signs trying to keep us out. We keep wire cutters in our pack. This is a war and out here its the front lines. Your in KY and the pressure is less. But, keep in mind what happens out West more often than not ends up seeping into every state. Think about it.
I go to Moab for two weeks or more every year. I know that area fairly well where this damage occured. What strikes me isn't whether it was trials bikes, dual sporters, MX'ers, or pixies riding chopped Harleys. It seems fairly apparent that some moronic motorcyclists probably did indeed go off road and chew up some of the landscape out there. You can bet that Jason Parriot of the Red Rock guys probably went out there to confirm that some riding and damage was done. It doesn't make a rat's a$$ what group of motorcyclists did it, it seems fairly apparent that they did. All it takes is a small group of knuckleheads to get stupid to screw up the deal for everybody. It shouldn't be that way, but it's often impossible to police stuff like that, so the next logical step is often to just shut out the whole category of users.
I hate aggressive environmentalists. I think they have tunnel vision and are often just on some kind of self-righteous head trip. And while they may try to over react to an incident like this, it doesn't alter the fact that it looks like some motorcyclists of some ilk crapped in our mess kit.