Mosko Moto Soft Bags for Offroad & Dualsport

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by Sideoff, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Hikertrash

    Hikertrash Wasted Rock Ranger

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    That's kind of what turns me off about those and the adventure-spec bags. I do like the way the Kreigas mount. I never knew that's how the worked. They have a very clean look to them.
    #61
  2. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams

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    That stuff is awesome for making two surfaces stick together, but in my experience, you need to shove a flat head screwdriver in and wedge them apart.
    #62
  3. FTL900

    FTL900 White and nerdy

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    OK, I'm a little late to the party... but I'm interested in seeing where this goes!!

    I've never seen the web dominator before, but it's an excellent idea of a well-designed, simple product that functions.

    I saw something on another thread recently where people were cutting a walmart trash can to fit inside a soft bag to make an internal liner, to help the bag keep its shape. They actually told you which trash can to buy, and had a pattern on how to cut it. I like the idea of a thin plastic liner. Keeps your volume when you're using the bag, and keeps it from collapsing when you're not.

    Probably the biggest priorities to me in all this are going to be:
    • Weatherproof
    • Easy on and off the bike- mounting straps on most soft bags suck
    • Lightweight durable mounts that are unobtrusive when not being used
    • Versatility and utility

    I love the external pockets and sizing them for a fuel container- it's a clear way of designing a bag for the way people are already using them. Another soft pocket or two would be good, for smaller things that need to be stashed- small tools, a fuel siphon hose... things you're not going to want to dig to the bottom of a packed bag for.
    #63
  4. HaChayalBoded

    HaChayalBoded Brooklyn Bored

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    What have you used that required that, I'm guessing something small where you couldn't get a god grasp on it. My EZ pass and previously radar detector were both easy to remove.
    #64
  5. FTL900

    FTL900 White and nerdy

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    He's right tho... I've had knee pucks that were velcroed to my leathers, and Ineeded to use a pair of pliers to remove them. Some of that stuff just doesn't want to let go!!
    #65
  6. tmotten

    tmotten Lefthand ride Dutchy

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    Zippers or velcro only allow for a reduction in fabric. Roll closures yield the same opening area, but does need more fabric to construct. The durability is inherently far greater.

    I don't understand the issue with strap lengths. You just cut the excess off or tuck the ends under the tightened strap. The problem for me is that everyone sews them onto the bag, so you can't change them. So pointless.
    #66
  7. bomber60015

    bomber60015 Anatomically Correct

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    +1 -- I've trimmed every strap on every piece of soft luggage I've every owned. . . . .

    and, + a bunch on not sewing the srtrap to the luggage. A loop through with a new strap can be threaded would be so much better ;-}
    #67
  8. Sideoff

    Sideoff Been here awhile

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    Thanks for all this input guys!! We're listening to all this with great interest.

    The "what to do with excess strap lengths" was an issue of continual debate at Andrew's old company. Here's what they came up with:

    [​IMG]

    The strap keeper is an elastic band which can be tighter/loser depending on how you sew it. You never actually remove the tail from the elastic, because when you tighten the strap the elastic slides with it. Then you pull the elastic to the end of the strap and it holds the extra strap length in place.

    We also want to at least experiment with the Velcro tails idea that was proposed earlier in the thread, thought that was kind of a cool idea worth looking at, but definitely understand all the objections to Velcro.

    Definitely like this idea: no sewn-on buckles. I hate it when a sewn-on buckle breaks. I think we've come up with a way to do this that will work for the compression straps (which have a very short throw).
    #68
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  9. Sideoff

    Sideoff Been here awhile

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    <?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p>Are there some rear duffle features that you guys really like, or would like to see? Here&#8217;s the stuff on my list:<o:p></o:p>
    • 100% waterproof & high abrasion resistance<o:p></o:p>
    • Separate abrasion/waterproof layers<o:p></o:p>
    • Roll-top closure<o:p></o:p>
    • High degree of compression/expansion <o:p></o:p>
    • Removable stiffener to keep bag away from tailpipe (removed on bikes that don't have this issue)<o:p></o:p>
    • Carry handles on top and ends<o:p></o:p>
    • Backpack straps that stash when not in use but are easy/quick to connect when needed.<o:p></o:p>
    • A feature for easy in/out external storage without unstrapping the bag or opening the main compartment. Used for:<o:p></o:p>
      • Moto or rain jacket<o:p></o:p>
      • Tent poles<o:p></o:p>
      • Wet tent
      • Camping garbage <o:p></o:p>
    • External storage compatibility (i.e. molle and/or lashing/d-rings)
    What are we missing?
    </o:p>
    #69
  10. 01001010 01000011

    01001010 01000011 AKA-JC

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    Perhaps a mesh outside pocket to store wet items such as found on some backpacks.
    Who wants to pack a wet tent or rain suit inside a waterproof bag.
    Place the pocket under the compression straps so when not in use it will not
    flap in the breeze.
    #70
  11. bomber60015

    bomber60015 Anatomically Correct

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    Make backpack straps removable, if you wind up with em.

    otherwise, my answer is, "yes, please."
    #71
  12. Sideoff

    Sideoff Been here awhile

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    Good idea, we're on it, thanks for the input! Might not be mesh but it'll be external and will have air flow. Possibly something similar to the helmet holder on a mountain bike hydration pack, but larger.
    #72
  13. eddyturn

    eddyturn Wannabe

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    I like the elastic keeper better than velcro. If the straps are too long the velcro will be very long as well. If the velcro is just at the end by tendency would be to cut off and burn the new end and that new end might not have any velcro left.
    #73
  14. clintnz

    clintnz Trans-Global Chook Chaser

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    I've got a side entry Ortlieb duffel that has done thousands of hard miles in that application. I glued an abrasion resistant patch on the base & it has held up well. I strap it on with Andystrapz piggyback straps to a base plate made to the right size with slots in appropriate spots. This cinches it down nicely with varying loads & is very secure.

    What I have been intending to add for a while is some light straps & clips to stop it falling off the bike when I unstrap it to open it.

    Having worn out a few items of soft luggage & built a few racks I reckon the biggest potential for improvement in ADV soft luggage setups is in the racks available. They are often better suited for hard bags or not well adapted to the bike. One size doesn't fit all.

    Cheers
    Clint
    #74
  15. HaChayalBoded

    HaChayalBoded Brooklyn Bored

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    Those are great on backpacks, on saddlebags and tailbags they do not last. Leave em in the sun and wind and rain and the rubber gets brittle and cracks and rips. I destroyed 4 out of 6 in a single month. I removed all of them since and have a drawer full of em. A sewn loop of cordura would do the same and last longer.
    #75
  16. tmotten

    tmotten Lefthand ride Dutchy

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    Sewn buckles is fine. A D or ladder loc. Sewn straps is just a cheap method.
    #76
  17. climberevan

    climberevan planning the next journey

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    I agree that the elastic strap keeper is worthless. The ones on my packs are all stretched out.

    Here's an idea for buckles: http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/images/Crash-Buckle.jpg

    The metal buckles on my climbing packs have held up to some serious abuse. They also hook through a simple loop of webbing, which eliminates the mating side and concerns about it breaking.
    #77
  18. btao

    btao RIP Lilolita

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    That's the same design as the ones on my new preferred straps for gear:

    [​IMG]

    The non-adjustable side slides off the hook so you can keep the same adjustment but pop it on and off.

    My caving gear still uses the double D rings or oversized plastic pinch buckles, but also these: [​IMG] And that's been through hell and back. Dragged through mud, rocks, water, etc

    IMO, if you want to get some serious designs for weatherproofing for off road, steal some caving gear ideas. Karst Sports I have a lot of Lost Creek gear:

    [​IMG] This design has no loose straps.

    So, speaking of totally badass for saddle or top bags. How about adding this as an option:

    [​IMG] It's 4 bucks at strap works and offers at least a smidgen of security.

    StrapWorks will have everything you'll ever need for straps and buckles.
    #78
  19. Sideoff

    Sideoff Been here awhile

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    Thanks again for all the input from fellow advriders! Here's the weekly progress update:

    Before we started Andrew told me that designing a bag is similar to building a house: the frame goes up fast but everything else takes a long time. That has certainly been our experience. Getting to the first round prototype was relatively easy but now there are so many additional details to figure out. This week we spent a lot of time on seam lines, features, fabrics, and the mounting system. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if we go through at least 4-5 prototype rounds before we even approach a factory.

    On the one hand I&#8217;m really excited to get to a finished product; but on the other hand there is a lot to be said for progressing slowly and taking time to reflect between rounds. I&#8217;m very glad we decided to design around physical prototypes instead of computer illustrations. I see now that a lot would be lost on a computer. Nothing beats having a prototype that we can touch and feel, even if it&#8217;s just a rough approximation of our final idea.

    Here&#8217;s the current prototype mounted on Andrew&#8217;s KLR for a test ride.

    [​IMG]

    Some things we&#8217;re discussing now:

    Fabric: in the latest proto we used a 34 oz PVC for the outer facing panel. It is extremely thick and abrasion resistant and we like it so far. On the side panels we used a 1000d nylon (similar to cordura), but we&#8217;re not too crazy about it. Instead we&#8217;re going to experiment with &#8220;Ballistic&#8221; nylon/cordura, a fabric that was originally designed for military flak jackets and which is now used on a lot of outdoor and tactical equipment as well.

    [​IMG]

    Compression: We want the pannier to have a lot of expansion/compression capabilities. Top down compression is supplied by the roll top, but for side compression we need compression straps. Our current prototype has 4 straps, two on each side, and they pull against the front stiffener, effectively sandwiching the contents of the bag between the stiffener and the rear attachment plate. This makes for a very secure load and clean look, and seems to work quite well. We are also planning to add a removable compression strap on the top, which would go over the roll top.

    Keepers: One issue with compression straps is that when the bag is fully compressed there are a lot of loose straps that flap around in the wind. This looks crappy, plus it creates a risk that the straps catch on a moving part or rest on the tail pipe and melt. We need to find a way to control the excess strap material. Some options we&#8217;re considering:
    • Web Dominators
    [​IMG]
    • Strap Keepers
    [​IMG]
    • Elastic Bands
    [​IMG]
    • Velcro
    [​IMG]

    Each of these has it&#8217;s own pluses/minuses. More testing required.

    Pocket Closure: Our original external pocket had a zipper closure but we&#8217;re concerned about zipper failure, so we want to experiment with a roll top closure on the pocket. We&#8217;d like to avoid zippers if possible, because those are often the first things to fail over time.

    Clips, Buckles, & Handles: we&#8217;re planning to use aluminum in all the high impact/abrasion areas. This will cost a lot more than plastic but it will also be a lot more durable. We have a parts book from the buckle factory and are sorting through it to find ones we like.

    [​IMG]

    External Storage:
    • We designed the pannier with an external pocket that fit two MSR-style fuel bottles. The pocket can also be used for tools/tubes etc. It also fits a 6-pack of beer.
    • We also want to make full use of the bottom and sides of the pannier. To do that we are planning to use MOLLE strips & stix. MOLLE is a military acronym that stands for Modular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment. It&#8217;s used in tactical and military applications for attaching pouches, ammunition clips, first aid kits, holsters, and other accessories to tactical vests and luggage. It&#8217;s easier to see than to explain, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqeSxjZGap4
    [​IMG]
    • Using MOLLE, the three non-impact sides of the pannier can be used to carry things which the rider needs quick access too, or which the rider does not want to store inside his/her drybag. Some examples include tools/tubes, water, and fuel.
    • In addition to this the MOLLE panels would be usable for all sorts of existing tactical pouches and gear that are already designed and out on the market, and we could create some new moto-specific accessories as well.
    This week we also made more progress on the mounting system doing our home-made prototypes in MDF wood. We&#8217;re meeting with Hein next week and would like to get him started on the CAD drawings so we can machine our next round of prototypes in HDPE.

    [​IMG]

    Also this week we started brainstorming our duffle design, lots more to follow on that.

    Oh yeah&#8230; and there was more of this:

    [​IMG]
    #79
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  20. 01001010 01000011

    01001010 01000011 AKA-JC

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    Looks great so far. For strap keepers why not use plain slotted ladder
    keepers, ie web dominators without the elastic? Use them at the end
    of the loose end. The strap should not have more than 2-3in of loose
    material when the bag is full so the amount to control should not be
    more than 50% of the total extended length.
    No need to make straps to long, if someone wants to lash on then
    they use the lash points you provide with straps they buy from you
    or make and cut tothe length they need.
    #80