Mother of all oil-threads

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by tagesk, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    I have survived oil threads in a multitude of forums and found no universal answer in any of them. There are some facts to consider: #1 most bikes are crashed or sold before oil plays ANY factor in your oil selection. #2 there is NOT any scientific evidence on actual wear or engine destruction published where us mere mortals can make an educated decision as to one oil being better than another. Now for a question, do you know for a fact that a particular oil (at least close to manufacturer's spec) was the absolute cause of an engine failure? Let me make that CHRYSTAL clear. Use of non-synthetic 10W40 Bluto Oil rated at SA caused a main bearing to fail due to lack of lubrication and generation of heat. This does not mean the moron didn't change oil for 250,000 miles or even checked his sight glass.

    The only meaningful thing I see is that when you buy your tea kettle you should consider the fact that the transmission is going to cause more molecular shearing and the wet clutch could slip or put junk in the oil.
    #21
  2. Ravenslair

    Ravenslair Been here awhile

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    How about someone puts together a chart that shows:


    • What year bike you have
    • How many miles are on it
    • What oil you use
    • How many miles you have been using said oil
    • Mileage between oil changes
    • What filter you use
    • How many miles you have been using said filter
    • Any notes

    This would be similar to Jim's oil filter compatibility chart or the 100 threads post. It would be updated regularly to show new data. That way someone could quickly see what oils are being used and how long they have been used. Any of you web programmers have a way to put that together? I'll buy you a case of beer.
    #22
  3. marchyman

    marchyman DR and GS

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    A friend also discovered through exhaustive experimentation that a quart of oil in the engine was better than a quart of oil in the tank bag. :deal
    #23
  4. marchyman

    marchyman DR and GS

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    Not to be nit picky or anything, but you probably want to add the "JASO MA2" part, also. JASO MB and bikes with a wet clutch really don't go together.
    #24
  5. Chat Lunatique

    Chat Lunatique aka El Gato Loco

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    At start-up you are not at working temp. My understanding is that the majority of engine wear occurs at start-up and during warm-up for the average Joe. So it is important to pump oil from the sump to the upper reaches of the engine ASAP. Thin oil moves thru the engine faster.

    So when there is snow on the ground, would you rather be pumping STP viscosity oil or thin oil to lube your cam?

    Here's a link to explain it all..

    http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_viscosity_explained.htm
    #25
  6. '05Train

    '05Train Mind is not for rent

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    There's some good advice here.

    You'd be hard-pressed to go on any car, truck, or motorcycle forum and find a single case of oil-related engine failure. It just doesn't happen any more. There's a small minority that keeps and uses their vehicle past 100,000 miles. There's a small minority of that small minority that does it with a motorcycle.

    I've done exhaustive used oil analysis, and I've come to the conclusion that as long as you change your oil regularly and keep the level correct, you're never going to have an oil-related issue.
    #26
  7. genka

    genka SUV hater

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    Oil performance at low temperatures is determined by the number before W and the linked article mostly deals with it.
    #27
  8. tagesk

    tagesk Tuscan rider

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    This is about providing correct and unbiased information in the GSpot FAQ; your suggestion is a good one.
    Considered it taken into account!

    Thank you!

    [TaSK]
    #28
  9. Gillus

    Gillus High Desert Rat

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    +1, run the break in oil in it for 600 miles or whatever they recommend, let the dealer do the first oil change with their suggested/recommended brand, then at 6000 mi or next recommended service, Rotella T 15/40.

    If it is cold let it idle for a minute to get the golden juices flowing and then
    :ricky the wheels off it and :freakyat the end of the day with a :D on your face.
    #29
  10. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    That is correct but there are plenty of oils that are not JASO rated at all that are excellent for motorcycles. Oil manufacturers have to pay for that API rating AND for JASO. If you get a quart/liter of oil and it does not have the ILSAK starburst, "Energy Conserving" in the API bulls eye, and DOES NOT HAVE the JASO rating, it still is most likely good enough for government work. It is definitely OK in an air cooled GS. To beat a dead horse to death:dhorse , if it makes you feel good to spend $10 a qt for mc only oil that says JASO MA2 on it, go for it.
    #30
  11. tagesk

    tagesk Tuscan rider

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    Øh, Sir, we're talking about the liquid-cooled GS here.

    [TaSK]
    #31
  12. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    Let's just make that a factual aside, shall we. What, pray tell makes the tea kettle so special that its metallurgy, space age technology (said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek), etc requires something more from its oil than a 1975 Kawasaki Z1, or any year VFR, FJR, Connie, Suzuki Bandit or just about every 2, 3, or 4 cylinder four stroke wet clutch, tranny sharing oil with crank motorcycle. My point is if you are expecting something new in any oil thread, stand by for disappointment.
    #32
  13. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    Cold starts, pumpability, rheological losses are reasons to use a low W oil in cold clmates.
    #33
  14. tagesk

    tagesk Tuscan rider

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    That, Sir, is all well.
    The first post in this thread, however, tries to point out that I am not trying to collect what all the
    fine gentlemen having a Gin Tonic here this afternoon happens to consider to be The Best Oil for
    their own, or some other's engine.
    In fact, I am trying to establish what you might very well consider the opposite: What BMW, the designer
    and manufacturer of the engine, actually requires.

    It is this assumption I would like to put in the GSpot FAQ.

    Let us also, without delay, remove the producer from this. As of today, it seems as if Castrol won the
    bidding and purchased the spot which BMW had left open in the manual. Next year that spot
    will go to Statol, AGIP, Exxon or some other producer. We are not at all interested in
    who was willing to fork out for that spot this year.

    As far as I know the manual for the wethead (the 2013-model, water-cooled R-engine) has in it the
    magical formula "5w-40" to indicate viscosity and "API SL JASO MA2" for the quality of the oil.
    That is fine, and it has been copied into the GSpot FAQ In Verbatim and In Extensio.

    Now, having covered all that which has been covered earlier in this thread, let us get right down to
    the question at hand: Can I use 10w-40 in the wethead? And please do note that this has
    been recommended more than one already.

    There are two valid answers to this question: No (because BMW, the designer and manufacturer of the engine,
    explicitly asks for something else), or Yes (becuase [...]).

    The crux of this thread is this: What needs to replace those dots for Yes to become valid.
    For example "The definition of viscosity means that above 0 C, an oil which meets 10w- will be
    identical to 5W-......." with a reference where I, and other m3ere mortals, can enlighten ourselves,
    that, Sir, is what I would very much like to have.

    As a side-effect: If no-one can produce any substantial information on this, pointing to this thread will
    enable us to shoot down he 10w-40-advice whenever it pops up in future oil-threads regarding the wethead.

    Thank you.

    [TaSK]
    #34
  15. Britome

    Britome Get Free

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    Seriously.... That was the most confusing, pointless and worthless article I have ever read. I would have been more enlightened had I tried to find help reading my Dog's turd.
    #35
  16. cjack

    cjack Been here awhile

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    Well let me try. I went thru a series of changes with the K1200S wet clutch bikes. I had an '05, '06, and now an '08. BMW tech bulletins recommended 10W40 if I remember correctly at first. Then there were reports of the wet clutch being starved of oil...clutches squeaked when engaged...and many were replaced. BMW then came out with a modification for an oil passage to be enlarged as well as some warranty authorization for thrust washer tolerance at the back of the clutch basket. Some mechanics were reporting "dry" plates when disassembling the clutch basket and plates. All this was followed by BMW introducing a new viscosity oil which was 5W40 here in the US bottled by Spectro. and publishing a tech bulletin specifying the new 5W40 for the K1200 engines. According to a mechanic friend at a major dealership, the BMW tech rep recommended Castrol Power RS Racing 4T 5W40 full synthetic.
    this stuff...
    http://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Power-Racing-Synthetic-Quart/dp/B0050J4GN8#productDetails
    note the JASO-M2 on the label.
    I used the BMWNA branded Spectro 5W40 fully synthetic, also JASO-M2, which continues to seem fine...no noises...clutch seems fine...feels smooth, no squeaks, etc. I have about 30K on mine and 20K on my wifes '08 K1200S.
    I think BMW has come up with 5W40 as best for their wet clutch applications. And being water cooled, better internal engine dimensional control with temperature, the "lighter" weight is appropriate.
    That's my take on it.
    #36
  17. Mike Ryder

    Mike Ryder Kriegerkuh

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    Task, Sir.

    Have you now a WetHead? If so congratulations.
    Wisdom hath many parts, unseen.

    “More matter with less art.”
    #37
  18. cjack

    cjack Been here awhile

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    If you ignore some of the dialog and look at the graphs, it says that most any of those oils tested have the necessary additives for normal oil change intervals. And, it is also good information for those with extended oil change interval...like a 10K mile trip...to use the oils that have the highest acid reduction additives...the third graph. And I would pick any oil that had that and also a high anti-wear additive.
    Trouble is, the graphs are confusing and even wrongly labeled. The oils were tested blind, given MOAxx labels, referred to in the text in that way, but nowhere could I find a translation. At least the important data is listed by brand names on the graphs and can be deciphered with some thinking about it. The viscosity chart is the most confusing, but I think if one throws out all the oils except the synth Castrol, Mobil 1, and BMW and then consider the other two graphs, those three oils are my choice.
    So there is some value to this article.
    #38
  19. tagesk

    tagesk Tuscan rider

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    Shakespeare to the rescue:
    I wrote Can I use 10w-40 in the wethead? while I should have written Can an owner use 10w-40 in the wethead?.
    Sorry for the confusion, but thank you for your attention!

    [TaSK]
    #39
  20. configurationspace

    configurationspace delooper

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    Yes, engines appreciate having oil in them moreso than tangbags. I'm hesitant to come to a firm conclusion on this since I don't know all tank bags that well. But I'm pretty sure engines don't like to run dry. As far as I can tell (and I'm fairly biased) tank bags are usually okay being run dry.
    #40