Moto down in Guatemala - Need Advise (1100GS)

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by dwj - Donnie, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. tjt94

    tjt94 Been here awhile

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    That is a great shop! We stopped there on the way through last summer. They installed the Tourtech turn stops for free and helped us out of the city by leading us through the snarl of traffic that is there. Super nice people! They will direct you to a hotel.
    #21
  2. TUCKERS

    TUCKERS the famous james

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    You are sure the throttle cable is not hooked up on the nipple where it enters the injector?
    #22
  3. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    My moto is still in the shop here in Guatemala City. I was told last Tuesday that they would put Priority on it since I was on a three month moto tour, but I have not yet seen any priority. :deal Wednesday, I was told that their computer could not find the problem, because of the electrical accessories I have added to the moto. I immediately told them that I could dis-connect everything in 20 nor 30 minutes, but they did not want me to do that, but said it would take MANY hours to find the bad wire. They also said at that time that the moto was running fine now, but that they could not guarantee its reliability. They had determined that it was not the Halls Sensor or the Moronic and had balanced the throttle bodies and maybe adjusted the throttle position senor, I am not sure about the sensor.. Friday, I was told that it could be Tuesday before it was ready and I again suggested that I dis-connect the accessories, but only received a response that the wires were very delicate. Saturday, the shop manager was not there or not available, but I was told by someone else that it would be Tuesday before it was ready. I was also told it was being worked on 100% of the time. I have been in the shop area twice, neither time was anyone working on my moto. Seems a bit strange to me that you can have someone working 100% on a moto supposedly looking for a single bad wire and predict on Friday that it will not be ready till the following Tuesday and that is after working on it for over two days. I am sure that they will fix my moto, I suspect it may have already been fixed and is just sitting in the shop accumulating LABOR hours, but of course I don't know this for sure and I certainly cannot prove it, so all I can say with certainty is that I am not at all comfortable with the communication I am having with BMW Guatemala City.

    Hoping to be on the road soon.
    #23
  4. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    I have had that happened before, but in this case it will idle for a minute and die. I already checked it numerous times. :D
    #24
  5. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class="dg-bbcode dg-bbcode-quote">Originally Posted by mark883 [​IMG]
    I would be suspect of the repairs done earlier, not being good repairs, or actually screwing something else up.

    Did they actually replace the hall sensor previously, with a NEW out of the box unit? Or did they just repair the old unit? If they just repaired, I would check the quality of the repair- another wire could have gone bad.

    Since you had some suspect fuel issues, I'd begin to wonder about the fuel injectors, if the hall sensor can be guaranteed as good. Did one get plugged up? A fuel injection guy should have a tester to see if the injector is getting a 'fire' signal. Heck, pull out the injector and see if it sprays while cranking. (um, don't smoke just then- BOOM!) If the injector is getting a good signal but the engine stumbles, then the injector or upstream fuel supply should be suspect. My knowledge is that the hall sensor controls both the spark plug firing and the injector 'firing' fuel into the intake. Mr Hall not being schizoid is vitally important to making your bike run correctly.

    Remember, there are good mechanics that actually know and understand what's going on, and can intelligently diagnose problems. Then there are mechanics that are just as stupid as the rest of us, and simply know how to swap parts around.............. and maybe get lucky.

    Really, if you have a good battery and a separate fuse block, your lights, gps, etc shouldn't have shit to do with your bike running badly. Its probably just a few too many wires running all over the place, maybe in a slightly disorganized manner.

    Hopefully, someone has checked the obvious 'throttle cable out of position on the injection body' problem.

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class="dg-bbcode dg-bbcode-quote">Originally Posted by mark883 [​IMG]
    Oh, and by the way, if you're riding a R1100GS, their %$@# computer ain't gonna find nothing. Maybe I'm reading my 1100 service manual wrong, but I don't think there's even a diagnostic port on the wiring harness. There's a magic bmw black box that will tell you if the hall sensor is putting out a signal, but its not a computer- just a blinky box.

    Motohank can correct me, but there is no OBD2 port or GS911 type readable computer port on an 1100. The moronic brain is an 80s/early 90s technology that measures air temp, oil temp, where the crank is in the timing cycle, maybe a few other parameters, and tells the fuel injectors when to fire, and the spark coil when to light everything off. Compared to today's bike and car computers, the R1100 box is Cousin Eddie.

    If there's a computer involved in diagnosing your bike, I'm afraid they may have mistaken you Donnie for a mushroom. They're feeding you shit and keeping you in the dark. (not an insult aimed at you Donnie)

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    The BMW shop told me that the Hall Sensor was OK, as well as the 1996 R1100gs's motronic. They told me Wednesday morning after they hooked their computer to my moto that it was running good and that they had balanced the throttle bodies. They said there was a bad wire somewhere that needed to be found. They said their computer could not talk to my computer because of the extra electrical accessories I have

    I did not mention it in the first post, but as soon as the staff found out where my moto is they warned me that this was not an honest shop. As I began to have suspicions about the service I am receiving, I began to ask question of the staff, including the manager. This is what I have been told, two Germans that have been on the road for two years left their motos at this shop to be checked over. When they went to get their motos, they were presented with a bill of $5,000US. The Germans, being familiar with their motos began checking them over and found many cases where they were being charged for parts that had not been changed. They German riders had some type connection with BMW and called Germany. No one knows what the exact out come to this situation was. Some can say this is hear-say, but I have been told essentially the same story by three different staff members, including the manager

    The Hostel Manger called an English speaking person from the store this morning. The manger here went to school with this man named Jose Andres Pinto. Jose had done some translating for me when I was first at the shop. He seems to be a very nice fellow. His title is Instructor Guia, what ever that is. He has promised an update at 10:00 Monday morning..
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    #25
  6. strsout

    strsout Banned Camp

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    Make sure to get aa detailed invoice to bring to your shop here later. I don't think that will help you personally, but may help other fellow riders to avoid this sho if that is the case.
    #26
  7. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    I just came from the shop, my moto is now getting attention. :clap I met several people while I was there, including Guateadventure from ADV. He is a staff member of the local BMW club that read about the problem I was having. He also received a few telephone calls from other members. He was at the shop to provide support and express concern for my problem. A very nice fellow with dual citizenship of Guatemala as well as the US. I also met a couple of Californians that were having moto problems. They were ADV Fool and GoinPostal from ADV. They are basically on the same path as me to Panama. And then there was Guatarider who just finish the Epic ride and Ride Report from Guatemala to Alaska Bay and back.

    I also spoke with the top Service Manager, they still think it is a bad wire some where. So, my moto is not ready, but it is getting attention.
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    #27
  8. TUCKERS

    TUCKERS the famous james

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    ADVENTURE RIDER RULES :freaky
    #28
  9. scooteraug02

    scooteraug02 Dog Rancher

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    Hey Donnie

    If you still think it is a bad wire try this thread
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636907

    Turned out to be a wire damaged by battery acid.

    #29
  10. TUCKERS

    TUCKERS the famous james

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    Also the five wires coming from the IGN can get pinched up close to the switch. There is just about a foot of wire coming from the switch to another connector.
    #30
  11. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    I have my moto and it is running great! Now for the rest of the story.

    When I brought the moto to the shop it had not ran in three days. Actually it would crank up on one cylinder and barely run for five seconds to a minute before dying. Occasionally the second cylinder would hit for one second. Last Wednesday when they hooked the computer up to it, it ran fine. They balanced the throttle bodies. They have continued to try and get their computer to communicate with the moto's computer. I was even told that they took the computer off of another moto and put it on my bike, but the two computers still would not communicate. This confirmed to them that there was a bad wire some where. I have also been told that they changed some relays and cleaned up some wiring. My ABS that has not worked since the first guys in Mexico, is now working. They adjusted the throttle position sensor with a volt meter yesterday or today. They had been trying to do it through the computer, I explained yesterday how to do it with a volt meter.

    I was told today at 2:00 that the moto would be ready at 5:00. I ask Jose the Tour Guide, a great fellow who speaks very good English, what was the problem and he told me the shop would tell me when I picked up the moto. At 5:00 I went to get the moto. Jose brought it down, I received no info from a mechanic. Jose said that they had changed some relays, adjusted some things and cleaned up some wires, but that they had not found the real problem. They had not had enough time to find it. Today was the 9th day the moto has been in their shop. Jose feels the moto will be fine for the trip to Panama.

    They had me sigh a form saying that they had not found the problem, they had washed the moto and my bill was ZERO! Is my moto dependable? At least the Hall Sensor and the computer has been ruled out. Did some freak thing happen and has corrected itself mysteriously. Did something they did correct the problem? Did the four hour truck ride to Guatemala City shake some thing the right way that had gotten out of sync?

    The throttle bodies were way out of adjustment from the first mechanics and was idling poorly. After the Hall Sensor was replaced and at some time before leaving for Guatemala I adjusted the TBs by ear and had it idling much better. At the same time, I could see from the position of the throttle position sensor that it was way off from the position it normally sat when I adjusted it. I could not remember exactly where it had been, but I put it in a more central position. Could this have caused a problem?

    What are y'alls thoughts on any or all of this?

    BTW, I would have much rather received a reasonable bill and been told they corrected the problem. With no parts involved, I was still expecting as high as $1,000 for the repairs and would have been happy to pay $500.
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    #31
  12. tjt94

    tjt94 Been here awhile

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    I really like that shop. We were lost in Guatemala City and somehow ended up there. After having a set of Touratech Hard Parts installed, for free, on two bikes, Jose lead us on a short cut through the city and on our way. The manager told us of a border crossing between Guatemala and Honduras that is not on any maps and it was good as well. Overall, it is a quality shop.
    #32
  13. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by eakins [​IMG]
    found this here http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141751

    Dealer Information: Research and write down the location and contact information for the closest dealership (of your brand MC) in the countries you will be traveling. There are BMW motorcycle dealerships in Mexico City, Guatemala City, San Salvador (El Salvador), San Jose (Costa Rica), and Panama City (Panama). If you have this info before you start, it will save time, and hassle, if you need it on the road. Also, develop a good relationship with your local dealer at home. Have their phone number and fax number, and/or email address. If you need a part on the road, they will most likely be the easiest to contact and the fastest way to get something in the mail/courier to you. Remember that courier services (FedEx, UPS, DHL) frequently have figured out how to easily clear customs, which may be more difficult if you ship a high dollar part thru the postal service, so their extra cost may be a good thing in the long run.

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    I have the info for dealerships in Central America. I plan to stay in the general area of Guatemala City for the next few days. If I experience no problems during this time, San Salvador is the next stop. From there I will take a direct route to Costa Rica. Since the problem started, it has occurred every single day of use. If I make it through these days without incident, I will cautiously assume that something has occurred that has eliminated the problem
    #33
  14. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    I went out and cranked the moto this morning. It cranked up and run well for a couple of minutes. Then it started to stumble with the RPMs varying. It continued to have trouble for a few more minutes. If I tried turned the throttle it would go dead, but it would crank back up with no problem. After it hit two bars in an instant, it went to perfection. What are the symptoms of a bad throttle position sensor? It may be bad, but since the throttle bodies have been balanced it is easier to deal with. A year or so back while in Alaska, the connection for my oil temp gauge got dirty. This caused the computer to think the moto was cold and made the fuel mixture very rich. My MPG went from 40 to 33, plus the moto was difficult to start. Maybe something like this is causing the problem.

    Will a bad throttle position sensor keep the moto from running? Or is it like the oil temp problem I mentioned above, just a pain in the butt till corrected? Thanks!
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  15. strsout

    strsout Banned Camp

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    You wrote that the "Hall Sensor is rule out".
    Are you 100% sure on that right?
    because for me still that is the problem.
    You also mention that the shop could not connect to two different computers.
    Any chance that the problem be in the 'connector wire' under the seat that goes to the computer? (could be a stupid question... I'm just picking on options for two computers being unresponsive.)
    #35
  16. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    They told me the Hall Sensor and computer was OK. They think because the second computer would not talk with their computer that the is a bad wire some where. Keep in mind, as far as I know, the moto ran OK the entire time it was in their shop. Concerning the Hall Sensor, all I can tell you is that the current or recent past problem is different in it's symptoms than the problems experienced before the Hall Sensor was replaced. You may be correct in your opinion, I don't know.
    #36
  17. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie [​IMG]
    I went out and cranked the moto this morning. It cranked up and run well for a couple of minutes. Then it started to stumble with the RPMs varying. It continued to have trouble for a few more minutes. If I tried turned the throttle it would go dead, but it would crank back up with no problem. After it hit two bars in an instant, it went to perfection. What are the symptoms of a bad throttle position sensor? It may be bad, but since the throttle bodies have been balanced it is easier to deal with. A year or so back while in Alaska, the connection for my oil temp gauge got dirty. This caused the computer to think the moto was cold and made the fuel mixture very rich. My MPG went from 40 to 33, plus the moto was difficult to start. Maybe something like this is causing the problem.

    Will a bad throttle position sensor keep the moto from running? Or is it like the oil temp problem I mentioned above, just a pain in the butt till corrected? Thanks!

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    I should have also ask, how do you test the throttle position sensor?
    #37
  18. mark883

    mark883 and the mysterians

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    left you a note @ IMSafe thread.

    With my free thoughts, which are worth exactly what I'm charging you for them. :lol3
    #38
  19. dwj - Donnie

    dwj - Donnie Long timer

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    The moto is in an under ground garage at a different hotel. I went and cranked it up this morning. It fired up perfect and ran till one heat bar and one dead, it fired right back up, but with the RPMs varying a bit, went dead again, fired right back up and ran perfect. I would suppose that is almost normal and I am not very concerned if the problem is no greater than the situation yesterday and today. I definitely think it is an electrical problem and I don't think it is a bad wire some where. The switch from troubled idle to perfection is too quick and seamless for that. I also think the balancing of the TBs in the BMW Shop has made a big improvement. But as always, want the views of others.

    A short recap if I may. The moto has only failed to run for a period four times. In two of these cases it cranked up and idled till it hit one heat bar as today, but failed to crank back up. In one case it had been ran for 50 miles before it quit and in the other case it never cranked up the first time.
    #39
  20. fortrider

    fortrider Been here awhile

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    If you are stil in Guatemala try to get hold of Antonio at Tar moto. I have worked with him on occasions. If he can not assit you maybe he can point you in the right direction. We could have them test a couple of things and communicate by email the results. I have sent them parts pretty quickly.
    Good luck. If you go to Antonios let him know this is Steve from Colorado that sent you.
    #40