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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by young skywalker, Jan 8, 2006.
Weight is a sign of reliability...
One thing that i found in the multitude of bikes i've rode this year is that the relentless quest for more and more BHP in the Adv sector doesn't translate to automatic riding satisfaction. My S10 is putting out 100 bhp at the rear wheel now - after a remap i should add - and i love it's nature now. It's rev ceiling is about 7000 rpm. I love using the low end and mid range to make progress.
I should imagine that the Stelvio is cut from the same cloth.
I do remember riding one a few years ago and finding it a thoroughly enjoyable bike.
Indeed, when I test rode the S10 before purchasing the Stelvio, I was very pleasantly surprised by the character of the S10 motor. 100HP is MORE than enough for hauling you, the Missus, and as much other crap as you can stack on the bike a loooong way in comfort. I did the 150HP Adv bike thing.....FUN, but not necessary, and not with the same low-end "umph" you need for laying down tractable power on those "oh SH*T" sections of trail.
I just saw the specs for the new '13 KTM 1190....145HP, with the engine being a "detuned" RC8 mill. Very Ducati'ish, and IMO the absolute worst powerplant they could have put in it. Taking a road-racing engine and "tuning it for torque" will get you a fantastic, flexible, ROAD-biased bike, but there's already a pot-load of those (Ducati, Honda, Triumph, etc). KTM should have stuck to their roots and made a better DIRT-biased bike and continued to stomp everyone off-tarmac. Now, they'll be just like all the rest.....
Yep...understand that. I just never feel heat on my left knee or upper shin, even when at a dead stop in hot weather. When I feel the heat, I feel it on the back of my thigh or on my calf, which is why I tend to think it's related more to exhaust temperature and how the pipes are routed than the left cylinder being closer to the rider than the right.
But that's just my opinion, and we all have LOTS of those!
I guarantee you a GS adventure does not weigh that little...on their very own tag they say wet weight does not include accessories. Sorry. I have sat on and rode both. Absolutely no way there is a 100 lb difference. No way. And the Guzzi carries it lower down. But really...what is the difference anyway. Once you are over 350 lbs you are screwed anyway...so balance and handling, low end speed without stalling, able to put your feet down solidly, smooth onset of power with clutch release, and tires...these things matter. Not absolute weight.
Since all the cool kids were reporting their low fuel light coming on at 250-260 miles and filling up with a measly 6 gallons, and I was more like 220 miles and 7 gallons , I thought I'd try a little experiment. As much as it pained me, I ran a tank of fuel through the bike averaging 4-4.5k rpm vs. my usual 5-5.5k rpm (i.e. where all the FUN begins ). Normally, my avg. mpg (US) is right around 33 (33.2 to be exact). By dropping the avg revs down by 1k, I got 39.2mpg. Note that my commute is 60 miles round trip on roads ranging from 25mph to 80mph + highway blasting, so that 39.2 could be significantly improved upon at a constant speed/rpm.
So....what did I learn? 40mpg + should be easy to achieve whilst touring at a constant 70-75mph. That's 4-4.5k rpm in 6th gear. Also, I'll rarely see 40mpg + because the bike is sooooo much more fun to ride above 5k rpm.
I moved my cables but un did them from the throttle grip and threaded them through to the rear of the triple clamp. It seemed easier than taking the triple clamp off. I had my bar risers installed within quarter of an hour. The Rox risers are not a perfect fit in my original bar clamps but they are held tight so left it at that.
That's the best said post on this thread. This is everything to rideability in all conditions. I have ridden 1200GSAs, KTM 990s, V-Strom 1000s and a Super Tenere' and found them all to be way more top heavy than my Stelvio NTX. And then I also found that I have more feed back from my front end, better damping then any off them and the easiest to hold a steady line when corner carving. Stelvios are awesome bikes. Nuff said. Cheers
If you are referring to the figure I quoted from the Motorcycle Consumer News reports, you are quite right: that was for the small-tank R1200GS, without bags or engine bars etc, and not for the Adventure model.
Independent weight figures for the Adventure aren't so easy to come by. However, Motorcyclist online quotes 581 lbs for the 07 model.
However, just how wet that is I'm not sure. I am guessing it is without the aluminium bags. They also quote 631 lbs for the 05 R1200RT - a 50 lb difference - whereas BMW's own figures quote a difference of only 14 lbs for dry weight - and the GS Adventure has a bigger tank.
It is looking like a full-tank GS Adventure with alum bags and a full-tank Stelvio with bags might not be so far apart.
Interested to see if anybody can dig up something more accurate. I remember there were some home-measured weights quoted on the Super Tenere thread a while back, for a bunch of bikes (but maybe not a GS Adventure).
How did you move the front brake line?
The electrical bundles are all long enough, but the throttle cables and front brake line were not, at least not on my bike. I considered undoing the throttle cables, but I was too lazy to do a front brake bleed so I went the top-clamp-removal route.
Re. the ROX not being a "perfect fit", what doesn't fit???
IMO this weight debate is pointless simply because these bikes are ALL running 600lbs+ once they are set up for adventure (engine bars, aux lights, sturdy bags, heavy-duty bash plate, etc.). Even 50lbs here or there makes little to no difference.
What DOES matter is where that weight is, and a spec sheet won't tell you that. To figure that part out, peeps need to ride each of them. I did, and based on that, I found the GSA to be a friggin' tank, especially with the fuel tank full. It carries a lot of it's mass up high, and as a result it's a handful. MANY owners have sold them for that very reason: Too tippy/hard to handle when loaded. The NTX and Tenere are both much better balanced, and carry their weight much lower. The Multistrada and KTM 990 are both significantly lighter to begin with, and feel more like big dirt bikes than ponderous street bikes. Both are well balanced, and don't feel overly porky even fully loaded. The only one I haven't ridden is the new Tiger Explorer, but I sat on one at the dealer and flipped it side to side (to the horror of the sales guy! ) and it felt no different than the Tenere or the Stelvio (but the tank had maybe 1 gallon of fuel vs. being full). One of these days I'll take one out for a spin and get a feeling for how it handles "on the move".
All that to say static weights listed on spec sheets mean F'all, and what matters is how they handle "fully configured" on actual roads (dirt or sealed).
Okay, found a likely sounding online source at Rider magazine.
They appear to have weighed an R1200GS Adventure and a Stelvio this year in similar states: bash plate, engine bars and side boxes on, and full tanks. Results ...
Stelvio: 661 lbs.
GS Adventure: 628 lbs.
... so according to them, there are 33lbs in it, or about 15kg.
Given that the Beemer sits on taller suspenders and likely carries its crankshaft still higher (to get some cornering clearance out of those horizontal jugs), it is not hard to see why the Stelvio would feel easier to throw around, and even to right after a tip-over.
In other news:
They weighed the Yam Super Tenere when they weighed the GS, and it came up the same: 628 lbs.
Given that the Super Ten carries 9 Litres less fuel (15 lbs) and has plastic panniers (8 lbs for the pair, compared with aluminium? I'm guessing ) we can speculate that an unadorned Super Ten would weigh about 10 lbs less than an unadorned Stelvio.
Adds some perspective, doesn't it?
For a bit more perspective, when BMW released the 1200 Adventure they claimed it was 27 lbs lighter than the its predecessor, the 1150 Adventure. Which would put the Super Ten, Stelvio and 1150 Adventure roughly on par.
And in yet other news:
Perspective from another angle - these are light heavyweights compared with the four-cylinder sport-tourer crowd. For example, from Rider figures:
2011 Kaw Concours 14: 690 lbs (with 10 litres less fuel, plastic panniers and no bash-plate or protective ironwork).
Edit: Hi to Sock - that one came in while I was typing.
A big thank you to Moronic for finding that data. Very instructive.
I left the brake lever cylinder etc attached to the bar but un did the clutch cable, I then routed the brake line under the bars by kind of rotating the bars while I had them undone off the bar clamps. Bit hard to explain but it worked a treat. Cheers
Awesome - thank you. Very useful.
Thanks to all the recent posters bringing great info about living with the NTX! You've got me dreaming.
I took my Stelvio in today for it's first service. I had to trailer it to the dealer since they are almost 2 hours away and they needed a old engine for the valve adjust. I dropped it off about 09:00 and it was done around 13:00. The tech who worked on it is on of the top 3 Ducati certified techs in the country...I remember him working on my '93 Ducati 900 SS back in the day at another dealership.
Anyway, I trailer the bike back home 2 hours, unload the bike and put the trailer away. I decided to go for a short ride to see if the TPS reset and TB sync made any difference. I start it up and WTF...it's only running on one cylinder!!! I know they took it for a test ride...I checked both plug wires at the plugs and they were on secure. I called the service department and told the service manager what happened...He put the tech on the phone that worked on my bike and told me to check the plug wires which I already had checked. He said it ran fine on his test ride and couldn't think of anything that could have happened.
I was pretty steamed at this point thinking I would have to take it back to the dealer and take another day off of work.
I checked the plug wires again, this time at the coils...I pulled on the wires and they seemed loose but when pulled them out I could feel the resistance when they came out. I put the left side in, then the right. When the right one went back in it didn't feel right so I pulled it back out slightly until I could feel it was seated in the coil right. I started it back up and it was firing on both cylinders...WTF?
I don't know if it happened on the ride home on the trailer but it's worth checking if you have a similiar problem.
The bright side is that an Italian bike will sometimes make you a better diagnostician.
You solved an easy one, no harm no foul. Enjoy both cylinders
So, once running on both jugs, how'd she run?
My bike ran SIGNIFICANTLY better after the first service, mainly because they did a TB sync (at my request....normally that's not part of the service, or so I was told) and found them to be off by quite a bit. Now the surging is pretty much gone, and I'm a very happy camper.
It does run much smoother, valves were a little loose they told me. Also the small hesitation I had at just off idle is gone. I have to say it wasn't very impressive on one jug!