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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by young skywalker, Jan 8, 2006.
Apparently Luigi is a bit miserly with grease.
I'd be curious to hear any first-hand failure reports.
Not a useful answer. Some people's "miserly" is perfectly adequate. More is not always better.
Head over to Guzzi tech. There are a few threads there concerning swing arm bearings on relatively new bikes.
I'm the one who started the thread about swingarm bearings. I have not heard of any swingarm bearing failures. Every modern motorcycle I have owned (Ducati, BMW, Triumph) has suffered from marginal bearing lubrication (swingarm and rear suspension parts) from the factory. I decided to check my low mileage Stelvio NTX. Yep, all those bearings had just enough grease to say they were not dry...yet, but were seriously in need of grease to insure a long life. One swingarm bearing needs to be replaced due to odd wear on the race. It looks like the race was not installed correctly. This was strictly a preventative maintenance issue and one that's pretty easy for the average guy. Photos at guzzitech.
I did see that thread. I'm more curious if there have been any actual failures. No offense intended, but if every modern bike you've owned has had marginal suspension lubrication (the common factor being you), maybe your "marginal" is "sufficient" from the perspective of the engineer.
James, that's a valid point. I'm not an engineer and I did consider that line of reasoning. When I pull a bushing out and the rollers fall out in my hand or I find rust I'm inclined to think they were under lubricated. I'll agree that the common link is me...and others who have noted a similar situation. FWIW, on the Stelvio the marks I can see on the swingarm bearing cone appear to be rust. There are no indentations that I can feel with a fingernail. Since I have not been wading streams or riding in day long rainstorms I can only attribute that to a lack of grease. As for actual failures, those bearings take more of a static load than something like a wheel bearing so even if there were no grease at all they would last quite a long time before there would be a total failure. With that said, I will feel much better when I start my next long trip knowing that this simple preventive maintenance job is behind me. Once again, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said, just laying out a different point of view.
Here's another take on the situation: http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/196/9590.html Pete Roper in Oz is a well known Guzzi wrench. His comments about CARC maintenance are based on experience.
Hot damn. RPM cycles called today with an update on the status of my NTX order that was supposed to arrive by late October. The new eta is mid December, it seems that the factory ran short of some items needed to build the bikes and that delayed completion. Maybe it was swing arm bearing grease.
It is now on a container ship steaming toward the new world. Upon its arrival it will bypass the distributor and instead be "hot shotted" directly to the dealer.
I forecast sleepless nights ahead.....
Congrats on the impending delivery of the new BEAST.
+1 you are gonna love it!
I know this is kind of like asking if someone would like another beer, but here goes....
I ordered a NTX in late June, got it in late July, put 5200 miles on it just before a deer took it's life and my bike with it. I am healing up fine and have been in constant consideration on what to do next. I ~LOVED~ the NTX for it's range, comfort, and all it gave you right out of the crate. I have a KTM ADV, so this bike mostly replaces my long distance touring mount with some side road capability.
I really can't think of a bike I would want more at this point. There is the Explorer XC, 'strada, etc that do a few things different but always have some trade off (cost of ownership, higher buy-in, I don't like first year models),.
My only rub is the BITCH it can be to get parts in a timely manner. I have been waiting for 6 months on a front fender for my Griso, 3 months for my euro signal kit, and a week or two for standard NTX stuff. No telling what happens when the bike is out of current production.
I am still loving the thought of getting another one. My question to you all- would you do it again if you had a chance to go back to mile zero without any loss of $$?
Kirb, I'm not married to Moto Guzzi or the Stelvio but I would replace mine with another NTX if need be. Although other brands have come on the market with a big dual sport (adventure motorcycle) I'm still looking for something that is better for me than the NTX. On a sliding scale of features the more important ones for me are: initial cost, maintenance cost (how much can I do myself), history of major failures (rear drive, engine, etc), comfort, range, standard equipment (so I don't have to do add-on), local dealer, parts availability. Everything I see on the market now is better than the NTX in one feature or another but the overall picture keeps coming back in favor of the Stelvio. Take the Triumph (great bike)...I don't want to take a chance on the first year of shaft drive, or even the second year. Doing a major tune-up would mean a trip to the dealer ($1K?). NTX comes with hard bags standard. I had a Tiger and loved the engine but parts were not much easier to get than what I have experienced with the Stelvio. You get my drift.
Glad you are doing better. I still have not road tested the rack I got from you, just waiting for a long trip.
If I had to replace the NTX today it also would be with another NTX
I get on it and it feels like an old comfortable glove - it just works and is, for me, easy to live with
Regarding some recent delays on the delivery of NTX units, I know of one case where the bike was ready to be delivered by Agostini and Motoguzzi took it back to the factory to replace the engine with the current roller tappet version. It was a white Stelvio, not a NTX though.
This is a great question and one that I seem to ponder every 12-24 months (at some point I need to stop doing that as it's getting $$$ ). Here's my 2 cents....
For me, it comes down to "if I sold it, what would I replace it with"?
I had the BMW GS. Great bike in many ways, not so great in others. I hear they've addressed many (most?) of my complaints that I had with mine (drank oil, lots of little problems), but I'm very nervous about reliability. So, I might get a water head boxer at some point, but not until it's been proven out.
I have (but am selling) the Multistrada 1200. WONDERFUL bike! My issue is with me, not the bike. At 420lbs dry and 150HP, it's so damn fun to ride that I turn into a teenage delinquent with impulse control issues every freakin' time I ride it. I constantly find myself doing very stupid shite on it, mainly because I (it) can. Car cuts me off, I zip around....then another one does it, and I zip around....before I know it I'm treating the cars like cones and I'm doing 90mph weaving between them. :eek1 Oy. I figure I better sell it before I kill myself or someone else.
Tenere? Rode one, nice bike, the Stelvio is better in every way IMO. Better build quality, more low end oomph, more sporting in the upper revs, better low-throttle fueling, better shifting, zero jacking/lash with the shaft, larger tank for way better range, and the list goes on. Don't get me wrong, for the money, the Tenere just can't be beat in the bang-for-buck category. Around here they were selling for $11,995.....but after testing the Stelvio there's no way I would have been satisfied with the Tenere.
Tiger Explorer XC? It's the only bike of the current crop that I haven't ridden and everyone says it's more sport bike than adv bike. I've already proven I'm my own worst enemy regarding "sport" bikes, and I really prefer a twin for it's lopey cadence and stump pulling torque wayyyyy down low. I expect the motor to be an absolute gem because I loved the Tiger 1050 (which I rode many times), and everyone says the TigEx is the same, just "more" everywhere.....but I still prefer a twin. The downside is the 1050 was a very affordable bike and another one that was a lot for the money. The TigEx is the same price as all the other big trailies, so "bang for buck" is no longer a selling point IMO. Too bad really.....
KTM 1190. This is a bike that might tempt me once it's been out a while to work out the kinks. My only concern based on the spec sheet is the engine. It's derived from the RC8 sport bike, and it's a short(ish) stroke motor meaning it will be quick rev'ing and prefer to be in the mid-upper revs. If true, it's low throttle behavior might really suffer, but until I get a ride on one, I'm reserving judgement. It might be the same rocket as the Ducati though, and that more than anything might keep me away.
A new wildcard is the Aprilia Caponord for 2013, but with its 17" front wheel its mission is too street for me. Shame they didn't put a 19" on there with wire wheels for added durability front and rear like the old Capo. Then it would be more of a contender for what I'm looking for (all roads, including the bombed-out excuses for "roads" they have right around my house!).
So, there's my long answer. For now, the Stelvio ticks all the right boxes for me, and if I had to replace it tomorrow, it would be with another Stelvio. If it proves to be reliable, I don't see replacing it any time soon, which for me is saying something.
This is an old '09 issue. The only '12s shipped to the USA are NTX's with the new motor. No one is replacing NTX motors with anything. The current delays in delivery are due to supplier shortages of a few parts.
That is exactly the feedback I was looking (hoping) for.
BMW- not going to happen for me. Nothing about that interests me right now.
Yamaha- had a FJR1300 for 6 years and needed a change. The S10 isn't calling me back.
KTM- been there, doing that with a 990. What a tank. The thing is just asking to be flogged.
Triumph- not a big 1st year fan. This bike is 'too new' for me, but the features sure are nice. Needs better luggage.
Ducati- this is the only bike that has me re-thinking. I'm not sold right now on the chain drive and valve adjust as well as the buy-in, but they sure did hit the mark with this bike.
I don't really need a ton of HP. I hardly ever used the other 100HP in my FJR anyway. The engine of the NTX is really exactly what I like.
Thanks again for the input. I am really looking forward to having to pull the trigger again.
This is why I have never owned a Guzzi, even though the bikes absolutely scream AWESOME to me. I LOVE the look of the Griso, and the Norge too for that matter, and the Stelvio look like a supreme competitor to my GSA... I don't like the new 1400 California at all, but am excited to see what new models they're going to do with that motor.....
But unless they get their shit together and start building an actual dealer network, and perhaps a U.S, based stocking location (Warehouse) to make up for the lack of Italian work ethic, I'll most likely never have one, I've thought about getting a Griso for day trips or "local" riding, but come on,,,own a $10k bike that I specifically bought knowing I can't really use it?? :huh
Nope. But BMW, KTM, HD, and several others continue to earn my money every couple years.
Sock Monkey, don't get me wrong, it was my first post and I don't have a Stelvio. I own a V7 classic that I ride hard and long. But I've been looking to get me a Stelvio for some time already. I have followed this thread from the beginning and many others in GuzziTech, Wildguzzi, and the ones in Spain, where I live, regarding anything related to the cam issue.
The thing is I also thought it was an issue long forgotten.
I almost bought a black NTX last week. One year old and 17.000 miles. It was built in May 2011. It was beautiful but....the distribution failed. The parts involved where the latest available, their reference being:
tappets = B014603 and cam = 879271
The owner took the bike for the latest campaign regarding new center stand, ECU protector, and so forth, but they also changed the failed distribution parts, using the same reference of tappets and cams. The thing is at this official dealer they did it all wrong, they did not wash the engine as stated on the Guzzi document.
I agreed with the current owner to take the bike to Caparros BCN, a mechanic that truly know Guzzis inside and out. We checked the engine thoroughly and the damage was extensive. Tiny metal pieces all over the engine. Filters, sump, everything had this glitter dust. Sadly I could not go forth with the purchase. The new tappets and cam had been already in contact with all of those metal bits and dust and the failure will probably occur again in a shorter timespan due to the bad maintenance and skipping the oil engine wash procedure.
And make no mistake, I love the NTX and I'm getting one sooner or later. I've tried the R1200GS, KTM990 Adv, Tiger 800, and many others, and it's the Stelvio NTX, no doubt.
My previous comment was regarding a new white Stelvio (not NTX) for another guy in Barcelona. The delivery had been delayed since June. It was bought from Agostini, Mandello del Lario, trough Caparros, to be trucked to Spain. The latest reasoning Agostini provided for the delay was that MotoGuzzi requested to have the bike back at the factory.:huh
Later on, when the bike was released and ready to be sent, Agostini explained "MotoGuzzi did not want any other 8V engine out without the new distribution (roller tappets)". I cannot verify any of this being the actual reasons behind the delays, but I seriously doubt Agostini staff would be making this kind of things up.
Ah. Without a location in your sig, I had no idea you were across the pond. All bets are off on EU bikes. Many models/configs shipped "over there" never made it to the US, so I can only comment on what (little) I know of USA bikes.
Best of luck in your search. You won't regret a NTX. Wonderful bikes. Guzzi seems to have gotten this one right.
I hope so..... I've owned mine for only 6 weeks. Has lived up to all my expectations so far.