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Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by young skywalker, Jan 8, 2006.
Yeah. A 750 NTX would be pretty kick ass...
Hope this doesn't turn into a pissing match but I am glad to read X1's rebuke. Altho I do not agree that this bike is a pos, I still wonder what the Hell is going on at the factory. I totally believe X1's reporting of the loose rear end bolts because, even tho I didn't have that, mine came with crushed plastic front mount tabs on the side panels, broken screw clips for said panels, missing header to head exhaust gaskets, three out of four header lock washers missing, misaligned body panels, chewed up mounting holes on the cover over the fuel pump and the list goes on. I 've had Redline tell me someone has had the exhaust apart and didn't put it back together properly, causing exhaust leaks but the original purchase shop/ service guys swear they didn't touch it. So, who do you believe? Quality control on vacation?
I also know in the past I have purchased quality, brand name torque wrenches that don't work right right out of the box. I've also gone back to my old belief that is torquing smaller bolts can get you into trouble and good old fashioned hand fell is the way to go there.
Still love the bike but the jury is still out for me now weather she is a keeper.
I was just thinking the same thing the other day and started looking for Quota's for sale! A modern day Quota or small-block NTX....Mmmmmm.
Rocker, I too have wondered about a 750 NTX. Although the newest version of the 750 only cranks out 51 hp it appears to be coupled with enough torque (42.8 ft lbs @ 5K rpm) to be a really fun bike. After all, my G650GS only puts out 50 hp and it does OK both on the highway and on mild off road stuff. The thumper is buzzy on the highway so I hesitate to take it for many 400 mile days. A mini-NTX, on the other hand, would have the smoothness of a Guzzi with at least as much torque as the thumper. I just wonder about the weight of this package, as well as how to make it cost competitive. The competition is getting pretty tough in the 700-800 cc adventure market. For $10K or less you have choices from Honda, BMW, Triumph, and others. They all weigh between 426 lbs and 502 lbs (Cycle World, Dec 2012) so the NTX should be no more than 500 lbs. without bags to be competitive. The new V7 Racer has a MSRP of $9990 so I'm guessing the NTX might be about the same price with less bling and without hard bags. Still, that's at the high end of weight and price for the market.
The current NTX is successful by making a complete bike (lots of things one would normally have to add via the options list, like crash bars, hard bags, driving lights, etc) at a price point that beats the competition. What I'm saying is that the 750 version really ought to do the same thing in the smaller capacity version but I can't see how the company can shave 125 lbs and $6K off by using the smaller engine and a slightly lighter frame. I'd like to hear other opinions.
Really sorry X1, you had the get off and I am thankful you didn't experience severe injury. I have an 09 Stelvio that I absolutely love. Yes, I do go out to my garage and just sit sometimes admiring this wonderful machine. I will say however that unless your bike (any bike) is not properly prepped before delivery you will have problems. My machine was not properly sorted when I purchased it. The prepping dealer will remain nameless. In 2010 I rode my Stelvio home the 180 miles from a Chicago freight depot, noticing within 45 miles my left boot was soaked with oil. Not much to do other than check the oil and find a remedy after I got home. It was a bad valve cover gasket overly tightened. I ended up hauling my machine up to Rosefarm Classics for repair. Jim was not the dealer I bought the bike from. He found valve cover bolts so over tightened the required drilling for removal, left cylinder head valve assembly was trashed by improper adjustment, over tightened valves, and numerous small issues which he found as he went over the bike. Interesting that he just marked the problems with scraps of masking tape so he wouldn't miss anything. (Many loose fasteners) It took two weeks to get everything repaired, the valve assembly being the largest problem. Piaggio did warrant everything. Pretty expensive repair on a new machine that was iimproperly set up before delivery. Just really piss poor initial service by a tech with a crowbar and crescent wrench machine. No problems since proper setup of my bike, zero; none of the issues you described, and I have ridden my bike off road some. I do concur with the above posts regarding the front wheel axle caps being "touchy" and fragile looking. About a year back I contacted Rosefarm Classics about my concern, and he said all of the failures he had seen where related to over torquing the bolts.
My two cents.
I think they could do exactly as you suggest. It wouldn't shave 125lbs off, but maybe 75lbs, but that's OK because if you add the skid plate, crash bars, bag mounts w/ bags, aux lights, etc., to any of the competition, just like with the Stelvio NTX, the competition will weigh as much or more.
Given all of the posts I've seen over the last 1-2 years with people asking for a smaller, lighter, 50/50 bike that can haul a ton of sh*t and not buzz like a chainsaw at highway speeds, I think it would sell well.
Excellent point re. proper setup and delivery. I was in a conversation with a well-known Guzzi mechanic and he claimed that he never had a bike come back for a failure on any bike he set up because he went over with a fine toothed comb before delivering it to the end customer.....and I have no reason to doubt him.
I had hoped that after several years of ownership by Piaggio the quality of the bikes coming off the line at Mandelo had been sorted. Knock on wood, but my bike's fit, finish, and overall quality has been outstanding ('12 NTX). Everything just works. I know it sounds stupid to point out things like accurate speedo, accurate fuel gauge, no oil leaks, not consuming oil, not leaking air from the wheels, etc, but other bikes I've purchased in the last 7-10 years have ALL suffered from these things (BMW, Ducati, etc). What I just don't understand is how so many people have reported their Stelvio NTX's to be rock solid performers (like mine) with zero problems, and others are getting out the flame throwers and claiming them to be total pieces of crap. Very odd.....
Maybe not so strange, and not very unlike the divided sentiments for the GS?
Just curious, did you crash on gravel or pavement on Translab? I had a weird crash on gravel there, hit a pothole filled with sand, the forks on my F8000GS dived too much, and both bike and I flipped. Happened within a split second. I never dared to go faster than 60MPH on the Translab gravel after that.
You make a good point Chev, but given my experience with my 12GS, and many others experiences with theirs, there seems to be a fairly consistent level of troubles with the newer BMWs (which is sad because I do like their bikes and my local dealer is awesome). From small things like loose bulb mounts causing frequent bulb failures and fuel sender failures to bigger things like F800GS oil leaks, stator failures, wheel bearing failures, fuel pump failures (on the 12GS), final drive leaks/failures (12GS), and the list goes on. With the Guzzi, it seems most of the bikes coming off the line recently are spot on (V7, Norge, Stelvio, etc), with zero issues, but then someone comes along and says their bike is just horrible (loose this, missing that, etc). There's no accounting for that in my mind.
Try the Triumph 800XC - I think that motor is the nicest in all of motorcycling. Just stay away from the factory bags, and the factory shield sucks.
Maybe the "Friday bike" myth isn't really a myth. It seems like MG is all over the map - there are good and bad ones. The post above about the valves being mis-adjusted is interesting - is setting valve clearances really a PDI task?
It is hard for the smaller manufacturers to keep costs and quality under control. I read about all kinds of issues with MS12's but my buddy's has been almost completely trouble free.
My 1150 went to the dealer for its 600 mile service and has never been back. My friend's 2008 1200 GSA has not been so reliable - he just about gave up on it early on (at one point it sat at the dealer for 3 months) but the last couple of years have been trouble free, so it is gaining his trust again.
Wait a minute...owner finds loose bolts, tightens them and when they loosen again he blames Guzzi instead of himself? Was the hardware replaced after finding them loose the first time?
Topcase breaks off of mounts...isn't the mount rated at 11 pounds or something? You know...the weight of an empty topbox and mounting plate?
Then wheels are blamed for losing air instead of the tire, which is the real cause unless they were put in a dunk tank and air was seen coming out around the spokes?
Then a torque wrench of unknown calibration is used during a tire change and that is the fault of Guzzi too? I'd sue the bastard that put that wheel on the bike and take his house.
I hope this kicks some used clunker Selvios into the used market, I want one really bad.
It was when they were replacing cams on new bikes.
I really like the look of this bike.
It was on gravel, about 20 miles or so west from the split going to Vappy Valley/Goose Bay. I was standing on the pegs at the time. In a millisecond, the bike went tits over arse. The front wheel locked up against the fork when the casting broke and the wheel got skewed sideways. I just remember being thrown straight ahead as if out of a canon. Totally unexpected.
I did. I had high hopes for it but the vibes at freeway speeds had my hands tingling within minutes. Some claim to feel no vibes on it so maybe I'm just more sensitive to the higher frequency of the triple. Nice bike otherwise.
"last 7-10 years"
it's no secret but much has been improved (at least with BMW R1200GS/A) since that time period.
it really is amazing how often BMW is pointed to as some sort of benchmark/comparable when so many like to find fault in them. my .02.
fwiw, love the looks of the Quota as well.
They have the complete platform available in the V7 Classic. All they need to do is add longer rear shocks, longer front forks, updated bodywork, proper wheels/tires, and they're done.
The bike would weigh in the same range as a V7C, add luggage and armor, and maybe it weighs 450-lbs.
Price-wise, a V7C is $9k, so a kitted ADVversion would be what? $10k-$11k, not unlike the blinged V7R.
I suppose the question Piaggio would like to know is would more than a couple hundred people buy them?
It's the internet.
Under the skin, it's almost identical to a V7 Classic.
You'd have to like a 50bhp, 400lbs Moto Guzzi to like the NTX750.