Motocross / Off-Road Bikes

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Moto Jimmy, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Moto Jimmy

    Moto Jimmy Making the transition

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    So 2018 just started and I see two viable options currently on the market suitable for aggressive motocross and trail riding. We have the following... Any others?

    Alta Redshift MX
    RedshiftMX_LeftSide.jpg

    KTM Freeride E-XC
    KTM E-XC.jpg

    Anyone own or ready to purchase one?
    How long before the Japanese manufacturers jump into the game?
    When will we see electric bikes allowed in national pro-level races? Will they compete with combustion engines or have their own class?
    What are the cost implications to the sport?

    Exciting times...
    #1
  2. thirsty 1

    thirsty 1 Rider

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    Very interesting and cool at the same time!! How long before the Japanese manufacturers jump into the game? Only time will tell but I don't think it'll be that long, 6-7 years?

    I think the hardest part will be the lack of an exhaust note. I know I use the engines vibs and sounds as part of the complete package for jumping and things of the such. Dawn of a new era.
    #2
  3. motu

    motu Loose Pre Unit

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    Love the radiator shrouds - they need to get over the ''needs to look like a motorcycle'' and build an electric motorcycle.
    #3
  4. Moto Jimmy

    Moto Jimmy Making the transition

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    I think the Japanese manufacturers will have to produce one within the next four years before they start to lose market share and maybe credibility. Hopefully once they do it will drive down the cost since these bikes are in the $15k range currently. I'm surprised it's taken this long. My guess is Yamaha will be first out of the four.

    Regarding exhaust note, I agree it will be something most will miss and have to adjust to but the benefits of eliminating the "noise issue" are worth the loss of that great thunderous sound IMO. Imagine going to a Supercross race and actually being able to hear the announcer. On second thought, maybe that's not such a good thing...

    I read that the KTM uses radiators to cool the electric motor so those are real. The Alta are faux.
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  5. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer

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    Rode the Alta supermoto. The shrouds are for knees. But yeah.. I agree about making electric motors their own thing. Gotta say that Alta is largely doing that, if not with appearance, certainly in the engineering.

    I don't need an exhaust note. I've been riding for, uh, jeez, more than four decades. Lots of eurotwins. Now KTMs, a 950, a 690 and a 530. The Alta is a hundred pounds lighter than the 690 and is faster, more responsive, smoother, quieter.. better in every way except range. The power characteristic is exhilarating. The response to throttle is amazing. It's really different from an ICE and I like it.

    I'll be shocked if the Big Four aren't in this real soon. A lot sooner than four to six years. Kinda like cars: Tesla won't die from its missteps, but once Toyota and Kia get on it, its market share will change dramatically. I'm not really happy about that because the Alta is such a pure motorcycle--no gadgetry, it's all "GO!"
    #5
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  6. Bucho

    Bucho DAMNrider

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    Our family is on its second OSET trials bike. This past year bought my son the OSET 20.0. Its big enough I jump on and ride it all the time in my yard and neighborhood (silent factor is AWESOME).
    However, its not completely silent. There is enough noise from electric motor that it gives you feedback the same way engine vibes/exhaust sound does.
    #6
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  7. MotoMatt50

    MotoMatt50 Adventurer

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    The Prices on Alta Motors products have already come down for 2018

    2018 Redshift MX - $10,495
    2018 Redshift EX - $12,995
    2018 Redshift SM - $13,495

    Standard Charger- $499
    R(rapid) Charger - $799

    The chargers for the MX and EX will have to be purchased separate. However the SM does have an on-board charger, so no separate purchase there.
    #7
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  8. Moto Jimmy

    Moto Jimmy Making the transition

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    Well that's a decent price drop to bring the MX closer inline with the current price for a 450 mx bike.

    With the cold temps we've had in the northeast, I was wondering about storage with one of these bikes. Will they have to be housed in a temperature controlled environment (ie, basement or heated garage) to maintain battery life? I suppose it's probably easy to remove the battery and store it where it's warm too.
    #8
  9. MotoMatt50

    MotoMatt50 Adventurer

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    That is a two part answer - A) there is storage B) there is cold weather.

    A) Storing the bike for long period of times it is recommended to store them at around 40-50% battery charge.
    B) Cold weather and riding or storing are two different things. If you are going to be storing the bike and not riding it, it should have a very nominal affect on the overall battery life if any. Alta is talking 1000 charge cycles so roughly 3000 hours by engineering calculations, if the battery is taken care of. Riding it you will get a Thermal Limit Warning that is basically just saying "hey I'm cold I need to warm up". IF you are going to be hauling this thing to the track and it is below 35 degrees it is best to store it in a heated area at 50 to 70 degrees for an hour so warm the cells up. Hopefully the drive isn't long enough to completely cool it down again. Not sure who wants to ride when its that cold, I am more of a fair weather rider myself.
    #9
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  10. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale let's be bad guys

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    $2500 dollars for a side stand, subfender, reflectors, lights, switches, and wiring?
    #10
  11. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer

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    And regulatory certification. Which you're gonna need even to ride in the NF pretty soon. Different set of ride modes, too, I think.

    But yeah, does seem like a lot. Hope it comes with a NFS approved spark arrestor.
    #11
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  12. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale let's be bad guys

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    You'll probably have to bolt a Sparky on it just to be compliant. :D
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  13. Lesharoturbo

    Lesharoturbo Nerdly Adventurer

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    It is an electric bike. The whole thing is a spark generator!
    #13
  14. Moto Jimmy

    Moto Jimmy Making the transition

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    Anyone have any intel if Alta will be going public in the near future? Looked it see if they had a stock symbol but found nothing.
    #14
  15. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    Chain-sprocket-driven=more maintenance, more replacement parts & robs electric-motor power..

    Hub-driven is the future, easily slap some dirt wheels/knobby tires on it, too:
    [​IMG]
    #15
  16. Moto Jimmy

    Moto Jimmy Making the transition

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    Now that's minimalist. So the battery is in the frame and motor is all contained to just the rear hub? I can see other benefits like lower center of gravity, better traction due to wheel weight, and the possibility of having a two-wheel drive option. It still needs fenders though! Cool...
    #16
  17. Lutz

    Lutz Fuzzy Rabbit

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    Hub drive would suck on anything requiring good suspension performance due to massive unsprung weight.

    Not a bad thing for a scooter or basic street runabout though.
    #17
  18. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    As if MX jumps are part of your every single ride?
    Most people who ride trails don't involve landing MX type jumps.
    I rather not have to clean/lube the chain/sprockets after every muddy ride.
    #18
  19. Lutz

    Lutz Fuzzy Rabbit

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    I'm not talking about jumps. I'm talking about a wheel being able to stay in contact with the surface, following and reacting accurately to the forcing function of the terrain.

    Put into perspective, the Alta motor weighs 15 pounds. A hub motor will necessarily weigh a bunch more for the same performance. So realistically, you'd likely be looking at adding 20-30 pounds or more to the rear wheel for 250 four-stroke level performance. Riding that hypothetical hub driven bike off road would be like riding the proverbial steam roller. At anything much faster than a crawl it'll be out of control.

    The super heavy hub driven rear wheel will also have negative impacts on handling. It would turn like a steam roller too.

    [Edit: Additionally, the added weight needed to make the hub drive provide equivalent performance could likely make it less efficient overall in power consumption than a mid drive.]

    What about when you have to remove and wrestle that assembly around to change a tire? More of a pain in the ass than a little chain maintenance.

    As I said, there is a place for hub motors. It isn't in mx / off road motorcycles.
    #19
  20. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    15 lb. Alta motor.. plus chain/sprocket for additional what? 4-5 lb... when they catch enough mud for another 2-3 lb; all adds up to about 20-23 lb. total.

    Less efficient? no friction between magnets and drive plates in a hub-driven motor, unlike chain plates, chain rollers, O-ring or X-ring seals/sprockets.

    Hub motor doesn't need to be disassembled when removing the whole wheel to replace tire/tube.

    I'd still take additional 20-30 lb. over the need to clean/lube/replace chain & sprockets.

    Whole point of electric vehicle is to minimized moving part that require energy, chain/sprockets are just rob electric power for moving parts drivetrain that needs regular maintenance and replacement when they wear out.
    #20