Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by _cy_, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. fbj913

    fbj913 On the Beemer Kool-Aid

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    So I'm no good at batteries and this thread is way over my head. I have a Yuasa YTX-16BS battery. It says STD on the top but after further reading and internet searching I'm now pretty confident that's it's an AGM batter. I've tried charging a couple time on the STD setting and the charge won't take. Now that I know that the setting should be AGM will it still work? Have I destroyed the battery since I used the wrong setting? Here is the top...

    [​IMG]
  2. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    need more info ... what type charger .. how old is the battery? it might of died due to old age ... you've got exposed wires? did battery get drained dead? on what bike?

    what's your charging system putting out at mid RPM measured at battery?
  3. fbj913

    fbj913 On the Beemer Kool-Aid

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    brand new battery (less than 4 months old). brand new charger, Charge It 12V Auto Battery charger. I was using the 2 amp rate. Wires are exposed because I disconnected everything to try and find the problem. They don't sit like that when the bike is moving.
    I was told I should see a minimum of 14.75 or better volts at 4500 RPM's
  4. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    normal charging voltage is 13.8v to 14.2v at mid rpm .. not familiar with battery charger above. please provide a link. make sure you don't have parasitic drain ... that will kill battery in a hurry. PB batteries that get drained to dead may not come back. warranty that battery while it's still fairly new.

    normally a 2 amp PB charger will not hurt an AGM if not left on for extended periods. don't exceed 14.8v when charging AGM.

    charge battery out of bike to full .. then allow to rest overnight. AGM should be 12.8v range fully charged. if your bike cranks over with battery 12.8v resting voltage. your battery is fine.

    go back a few pages ... there's a Yuasa 900 milliamp charger that's excellent for not much $$$
  5. fbj913

    fbj913 On the Beemer Kool-Aid

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    here is the charger I'm using (i got it from napa).
    http://cloreinfo.com/2011/02/charge-it-4500-series-battery-chargers/

    i've got everything working fine with a walmart battery for now. i should be able to get to a dealer on friday. thanks for your help.
  6. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    "YTX16-BS Motocross 12v 230 CCA AGM Power Sport & Motorcycle Battery"

    your Yuasa battery is an AGM and charger in link spec's AGM. so being the wrong combo is not your problem.

    sure hope your charging system is still putting out ... unlikely but it's certainly possible for a new battery to fail.

    let us know what dealer comes up with ...
  7. infer66

    infer66 Adventurer

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    After my YTX died of inactivity I replaced it with an earthx ETX24C. The bike starts easier with the new battery but the bike has developed a fault and I am not sure what caused it. Ever since the upgrade my 2008 1200GSA with under 10000 kilometers on the dial is giving me the non flashing ABS red light. The start up check finishes normaly but after a minute or two in the ride the red light comes on and stays. No other warning light. Any ideas of if the new battery has caused my ABS system to fail?
  8. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    unlikely any LiFePO4 battery is causing problems with your ABS. normal charging voltages for all systems that support PB is 13.8v to 14.2v.

    normal range LiFePO4 batteries operate at about 13.8v to 12.85v (20%) range with some 90% of effective power happening at 13.3v to 12.85v (20%) or a very flat discharge curve.

    it's not uncommon for a 2008 1200GSA to experience ABS failure even with very low miles.

    [​IMG]
  9. AKohler883

    AKohler883 Been here awhile

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    BMW, nor any other motorcycle manufacturer, recommends putting a lithium battery in their bikes. ABS is only one of the many reasons stated. But why would you want to listen to BMW, they only made the bike. Not a good idea to do whatever you want and then try to figure out why your bike is screwed up later... Unless you have an Internet forum :-)
    Maybe you can return the battery ?
  10. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    currently no motorcycle mfg has outfitted their bikes with LiFePO4 battery as stock equipment. predictions are that's going to change and probably in the near future.

    Porsche currently offers a LiFePO4 battery as OEM equipment ... costs is $1,200+

    ALL charging systems that support lead acid batteries has to operate within a set parameter. Modern electronics are designed to operate within those constraints.

    LiFePo4 battery voltages neatly fall within those parameters. one of the main barriers to LiFePO4 adoption is costs ... installing a properly sized LiFePO4 with enough amp hour capacity to operate at lower temps costs $$$$...
  11. trailer Rails

    trailer Rails Long timer

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    CY,

    I spent the last week or so trying to wade through this thread and am pretty convinced I need a LiFePO4 battery for my dirt bike bike.

    It is a KTM200XC-W. 200cc 2stroke. It has a kicker and I always use the kicker to start the cold motor. The starter is only used on a warm motor. The battery is positioned up high under the seat, so a few pound weigh loss would be great. Any recommendations on a battery? All the lighting has been disconnected on the bike. The computer has it's own watch battery. I will ride in temps down into the teens.
  12. trailer Rails

    trailer Rails Long timer

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    Here is a pic of the existing battery.

    [​IMG]
  13. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    you've got a Yuasa 3AH battery with minimal starter requirements. starter usage only when bike is warm. this means most any LiFePO4 battery that fits into space available will work fine.

    Shorai LFX18 or EarthX ETX18 should work if available space will fit.

    with original battery weight of about 3.8 lb, not much weight savings to justify spending $$$ ... I'd stick with AGM .. but that depends on how important saving weight is to you?
  14. trailer Rails

    trailer Rails Long timer

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    Weight savings is nice, I can notice a handling difference when the tank is down a gallon. I was thinking something like the tiny SYCL you have pictured. I think it weighs a lot less than a pound. Loosing 3 pounds would be great.
  15. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    4 cell LiFePO4 = 2.3AH actual .. that battery is no longer made. too small for most applications. your bike's original 3AH lead acid battery is tiny, so would fit your application.

    for reference that 4 cell Sycl weight is 12 oz ... so you would save 3 lbs... note LiFePO4 batteries with external cables need extra care/protection for connectors and battery body.
  16. trailer Rails

    trailer Rails Long timer

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    Do you know of anything that light and is still manufactured? I may not even need 2.3AH, I have a kick starter if I need it, it is just nice to be able to hit the starter button out of a stop or if I stall on a weird hill climb.
  17. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    a four cell (26650) or 2.3AH is just about the smallest LiFePO4 motorcycle battery available.

    check out an EarthX ETX12A or B... that would be smallest LiFePO4 EarthX makes.
  18. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    answer depends on your bike ... parasitic drain, if any determines if your AGM battery needs to be on a charger/tender.

    for instance my bone stock R90S has a clock that will discharge a large AGM battery in a few months.

    my R80G/S has no clock and no significant parasitic drain. Currently running a EarthX ETX36 = about 14amp hour actual. no drain problems, but seldom does a week go by without riding it.

    AGM and LiFePO4 both have very low self discharge rates. so if you have a problem with battery going dead from sitting ... something is draining battery

    some battery tender/chargers will kill a perfectly good battery, if left on long enough. best to confirm overcharge will not happen...

    1. charge your battery to full
    2. take a known to be correct meter, measure voltage from charger/tender.
    3. at full charge, tender/charger if it has a maintenance mode will lower voltage to 13.3v-13.6v range.
    4. normally a charger will put out higher voltage during bulk charge phase... 14.8v is highest desired voltage range for AGM

    think water pressure = volts .... current = flow
    if volts is not high enough, not enough pressure to push current into battery.

    say a tender is putting out 15.2v so long as it's plugged in ... even if tender is only putting out a tiny 250 milliamps... left on your motorcycle battery at some point that tender will kill you battery.

    that tender is designed for a full size wet lead acid battery .. which has a large self discharge rate... above charger will probably not hurt a full size wet PB, but will kill a motorcycle sized AGM.

    recommended charger/tender is a Yuasa Smartshot 900 which safely charges AGM. output voltages also matches LiFePO4. so it's safe for both.
  19. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    Antigravity Batteries makes models that are the most compact battery in the industry at every size level available bar none. I find it odd that Cy did not post that for you to give you a good answer on your question on finding a product to fit you application. We actually offer a hard case and waterproof design where the Sycle is shrink wrap and not waterproof.

    Since you have a 2 stroke with Estart you would have to use a minimum 8-Cell battery since a 2 stroke does not have the starter reduction gearing of a modern 4-stroke. But within a month we will actually have have a new battery our... our EXTREME POWER SERIES...It will have the power of an 8-Cell in a 4-Cell case size. Very amazing advancement, it will easily start 1300cc motor and V6 trucks and is only 4" x 1" x 3.25" tall.

    Our site is here http://antigravitybatteries.com/
    Our small cases are here...http://antigravitybatteries.com/small-case-batteries/


    Just want to point out that Antigravity is a viable option especially when you need the most compact battery available. In addition we are the supplier to Yamaha's GYTR line of products. And if you know Yamaha that is a BIG deal... they don't use your stuff if it sucks. Here we are on Yamaha's site http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sp...il/5/359/1279/18729/all/1/12174/0/detail.aspx

    You will rarely find us mentioned in Cy's thread though he knows us well because we have openly mentioned that we felt his posting is biased toward 3 brands and our position is, if you are a reviewer you should be objective and mention all brands and provide unbiased info. I feel once again this proves true from my perspective.

    Regards
  20. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    totally correct ... reason I've not mentioned Anti-gravity much is very simple. I've not had Anti-Gravity batteries to do real world tests on.

    there is NO way I'm posting performance data on any battery unless I can confirm with my own state of the art instruments.

    it's well know that this thread currently has the largest amount of LiFePO4 motorcycle battery information on the WWW and is supported by several battery/charger mfg.

    only promise that I've made to mfg is that I will be fair in posting feedback. when performance has not been up to spec's and/or one product performs better than another I've said so ..

    for instance EarthX currently offers what promises to be the new state of the art in LiFePO4 batteries with internal load balancing and new to the industry.. feature to shut down battery when voltage drops below a set level. but since I've not yet received new series of EarthX batteries... you will not see any mention of performance until I receive new gen EarthX battery and have tested. for all I know MOFETS used to disconnect loads will totally fail under load.

    when someone is asking what battery tender to purchase... naturally I'm going to recommend a Yuasa SmartShot 900 because I've tested that charger and know output voltages match AGM and LiFePO4 both. Cost is about same as Deltran tender .. since I've not tested a Daltran Battery Tender and Yuasa chose to support this thread by sending me a Yuasa SmartShot 900 costs ($27 amazon) about same and has a known/proven performance. guess which charger/tender I'm going to recommend?

    despite multiple request for sample batteries to do testing upon. Anti-Gravity has chosen not to participate.

    again .. I refuse to post performance data on any battery and/or charger unless I can verify performance first. If you still don't have my contact info.. please PM .. thanks for your understanding...