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Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Reverend12, Sep 23, 2009.
Perfect in the sense of production/running issues but you knew that Mr Intentionally Obtuse.
Amen. I just watched a KTM video where they are working on the 2017 models! KTM is an established company already cranking out bikes.
On Orange County Choppers they build a bike in 1 hour, with breaks for commercials.
Harley builds at least 5 completely new bikes every year.
Yes, they have been building the same completely new bike for the last 50 years.
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And selling every one of them.
Which is why they needed a government bailout in 2008....they were selling them to people who were "unqualified buyers".
Your thoughtful and intelligent response has no room in this thread. Please lurk, or simply reply 'I want them to succeed, but....'
One of the things that the Motus front men did wrong was give aggressive dates. It won't matter to the real end users, but keyboard commandos sure like the fodder.
...one of my favorite quotes:
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Yep, the government saved Harley again.
This thread really is going around in circles... I'm pretty sure that quotes been posted here.
Has anyone discussed the fuel injection/GDI?
I'd like to see one again. I hope someone buys one someday.
They dropped the GDI as of the last major update. Complexity and ability to service at dealers was the reason. I suspect cost was another.
Motus has not discussed the EFI. I'm sure you will hear something once the EPA traps have been run.
And that pretty much sums up this thread. If Motus hadn't hyped it so much, and implied release dates, etc., there wouldn't be 160 pages of going around in circles.
Has anyone seen a production bike yet? Or are we all still looking at the same two bikes. The only dealer close to me is still listed as a Motus dealer on the Motus site, (last I looked), but no longer has anything about Motus on their own web site. Last year it was all over their site. They were excited last year to be getting bikes in '12 and hoping to get customers in, etc. to check them out.
On paper they appear to be making progress, but they don't seem to have established the core manufacturing resources to actually build 200 bikes a year.
At the end of the day, it's hard to sell a totally new bike w/o demo rides. Makes me wonder what kind of investment each of the dealers has to commit to?
Just went to the Motus website and found they are taking reservations now for spring/summer 2013 delivery. There is also new dealer on their map, Moon Motors in Monticello, MN.
Can you name any fresh start car, or moto makers that managed to keep to their original introduction schedule, or maybe estimate would be a better word.
What core manufacturing resources are you referring to? They seem to be contracting out for most all the big parts, not unlike Local Motors.
How many Dreer Nortons have you seen? Has it been an easy road for every subsequent Indian owner?
I'm sorry that your 'local' store changed their mind on taking on another line of bikes. It costs money to do that, and people do change their minds.
Just because you haven't seen some production bikes from them means absolutely nothing.
Gee, how about assembly technicians, quality control inspectors, manufacturing engineers, and the little infrastructure items like being able to paint parts or create an assembly line for production. Last I read, they still have 3 employees. You can farm out a lot of parts and assemblies, but it still takes a lot to build those into bikes. The less you control in house, the more often you get stuck waiting for a vendor.
<shrug> does going to the factory in Portland count? You know, before they were sold, again. When they didn't have a transmission that would hold up and couldn't deliver on their production promises. They had a bunch of 916s, but not any they would sell.
Actually, you missed my point with the 'local' dealer, (about 140 miles away). I think they are still on board, but they removed all reference to Motus because there isn't anything to tell/show people.
Tell me you can deliver in 2015 and do it in 2014 and you're the Man. Tell me you can deliver in 2012 and deliver in 2014 and you suck.
As for not seeing any production bikes meaning nothing. You're right, it means nothing that I haven't see any. It means something that no one else has either.
I know plenty about what it takes to bring a new product to market. I've spent the last 30 years in manufacturing and have been part of the process of doing prototype and production work to bring complex mechanical products to life and get them to the customer. Yeah, I know how marketing tends to screw everyone by jumping the gun. I know how vendors can screw your time lines to hell and deliver parts/assemblies that were not what you spec'd, despite the first article items being spot on. I know how little things like paint and VOC's can cause havoc with quality control and licenses and fines.
The quality control alone on vendor supplied parts is a big chunk of time and cost and manpower.
And I've seen companies nearly fold that were doing well when a distributor jumped the gun and advertised products that we were developing, but were not ready for production, killing sales of current production while end users 'waited' for the new item that was still over a year out.
Motus has a chance, even at the current pricing. As long as people want the bikes, they will sell them. But customers are fickle and grow tired of waiting for things that don't materialize. From the moment you start showing off your products, you have a window of interest to take advantage of. Motus might have another year, then the window will close. Today's interested buyers will have moved on and bought other bikes.
None of us will really know how the Motus will sell until people start buying them and riding them and talking about them.