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Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Reverend12, Sep 23, 2009.
I wonder how long before they ask for bailout money from the tax payers to keep their doors open?
Very informative, thanks for posting.
And after watching it, I think we may all be in for a case of sticker shock.
There is no plan at all for mass production. As in, they are planning this as a hand-built bike.
They want it to be the sort of bike where, "you're lucky to get one".
They are hoping to build 200 or 300 bikes next year.
Before getting into designing the bikes, they examined the business case fror building them. And it sounded awfully like they are planning to make money from the few hundred bikes a year that they build and sell.
Add that up and what do we have?
- They are hoping there will be a waiting list of buyers for the few hundred bikes built.
- They will charge whatever they believe they can get away with while maintaining that wait list.
- They will avoid charging so little that the wait list is enormous (because if they did, then the real money would be made by people earlier on the wait list selling at a premium to those further down).
So (and as usual, assuming the bikes turn out to be as good as they hope), what sort of price tag would ensure they get only a few hundred people a year placing deposits?
Oh, and speaking of videos, this is well worth a peek (just up, at the Motus site):<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3DByGC5AlY0?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="390" width="640"></object>
A couple of bike writers comment after riding a prototype. And some ride footage - looks very good.
And an interesting post here on another forum from a Ducati rider who it appears followed a Motus test rider through a nice stretch of road recently. Sounds like it was a case of :eek1
Edit: and having pointed out a few weeks ago that their website had begun quoting the weight as 240kg (530lbs) dry, I see today they have switched back again to 240 wet. Must have been a proofing glitch (of course we still don't know what wet means in Motus-speak).
Yes, they are in business to make money, so I too am concerned about price as it relates to my ability to possibly buy one in the future. I did get a chance to sit on the bike and talk to the guys in Daytona this year and they told me then that they expected it to be priced in the Ducati/BMW range whatever that means. If this bike costs about the same as the Multisrada or an RT then I can see myself owning one at some point. If it is significantly more expensive then I probably won't be able to do it.
I am also hopeful Erik Buell Racing comes out with a sport touring bike at some point before I am in the market again. I love my XB12XT, but I'd also love a bike similar to what I have with the Rotax motor in it.
Fortunately for me, my current bike has a lot of life left in it and I am very happy with it, so I can patiently wait and see what comes.
I've gone from being excited about this bike to being more skeptical after the news they plan on 200 to 300 bikes a year. I'm doubtful you could sell it for less than $30k and be profitable, even if you only had about 4 employees! Then again, from the look of the job description on their site that they want to fill, they may only want 4 employees. That person will wear a lot of hats! It's still a massively appealing bike to me though and I hope they make it.
Anyone who was hoping for a $15k bike was not paying attention. Motus early on said it would be a premium priced bike, but not exclusive. I suspect $22-28k depending on trim level. Any higher and they won't sell very many, any lower and they won't be able to keep up with demand. People who are thinking 'They won't sell very many at $20k in this market" are very wrong. I would be thinning out my fleet just to get in line at that price.
They won't be 'charging whatever they can' either. The price they charge is one they will have to live with. You can't charge too much and lower 2-5k later or you piss off the people who bought in early. You can't charge too little early or you get a bad name by raising your prices too quick. The initial offering will be a careful consideration of ROI and maintaining the brand name. 300 bikes a year at $25k is 7.5 million dollars...That's not a bad gross income in year one. I doubt they have more than a few mil tied up in R&D at this point.
They started this project at a perfect time- engineering firms need work to do with the downturn in the auto industry. MFG firms are more willing to take on small batch projects. They have timing and a good idea on their hands.
I made this point earlier in the th'd when everybody was busy dogpiling them on their "timing". This is the perfect time for engineering work on the small/cheap, and that was reinforced by the short interview. You think the engineering company for the GM factory race team would've returned their call in 2006? Katech won't be making much cash off this deal, but it keeps quality personnel around that might be thinking about a move and gets them exposure until the next big deal comes along.
Did anybody see the "First Ride" report on it in the Oct MotorCyclist magazine? Not too bad.
Cycle World had a similar article. Heavy throttle spring, Heavy clutch. Unrefined tranny. Fueling not sorted out on the low RPM end. Not too hard to sort out for production. You have to be confident in your creation to let the media flog your machine in an unrefined state.
I am keeping my eyes open for a price, but I suspect we won't see one for at least a year.
Better to wait a year and have the primary bugs all resolved than to come out too early with it and suffer the consequences of dissatisfied owners and bad press.
I hope they succeed, but given these turbulent economic times, I remain sceptical.
The write-ups by Alan Cathcard;the highest paid journo-whore of the whole industry...
As for the MOTUS itself I like the idea but I have serious doubts they will succed.
Have a crank like BMW or Guzzi perfect for shaft-drive and use a chain because a shaft would be to heavy for a "sport-bike" like the MOTUS...
They must have been smoking too much medical marihuana while out here in kalifornia...
Or a V4 that sounds like a V8 ? More like a 1700cc Ford V4...
I don't think Honda has too much to worry about the new american version of their ST1300 for double the money and sporty chain-drive...
If they want to be real a bike like that needs shaftdrive,ABS,TC and better looking engine castings from day one to have a chance in todays super competitive market where money is tight.
Then but only then they could charge an extra 20% max "patriotic tax"...
Direct injection was first used in 1920's and can be a real bitch to get right because its heat sensitive, too much and you get pre-mature ejaculation, not enough and the fuel will not atomize, now add all the other variables. ST1300, Yamaha Venture and Vmax, Aprilia's V4 are great examples of V4's, the latter two are state of the art/edge of technology, the Tuono V4 is breaking hearts all over Europe, so the market for V4's is mature if Motus can keep the price from touching the stratosphere.
I am curious. Have you seen or heard the Motus? It is pretty impressive for a prototype.
Ahh, the 'BMW or bust' guy is back.
Shaft drives are costly and heavy. They don't add much to the mix these days. Chain allows FD ratio adjustment. Many fantastic touring rigs use chains....and EVERY real sport bike uses them or converts belts to them for race use.
The engine sound is subjective, but only you have complained. I am not surprised.
Why would any major MFG be worried about Motus who ~may~ be a 300 units a year outfit? Motus will pluck enough people away from FJRs, Connies, and STs to make a go of it regardless of your german snobbery.
Who said it won't have ABS? Never saw that in a Motus press release.
Who said it needs TC? Most riders would like to have less do-dads that could break (wait, you are a BMW fan, you like crap you don't need that breaks)
THE BIKE IS A PROTOTYPE. Comments on the final product can only be made once it actually is a final product.
It really doesn't matter since you would never buy one anyway. We have proven that in your trio of 'what I hate about every MFG' threads. The bike is made for a segment of riders who think this is EXACTLY what they have been waiting for.
Chains sap less energy too because they don't go through as many direction changes as shafts do.
MotUS reminds me of when Buell started up...except the target is a sport-touring rig. I wish them luck and, hopefully, one day they may build one that I may be interested in...a bit more room in the legs and less of a reach to the bars...
Hmm...Motus adventure bike?
Having sat on the Motus and on a Honda ST1300, I was pretty suprised to hear someone compare them, till I thought about it and realized both are marketed as sport-touring bikes and both have V-4s. Outside of that, however, the bikes feel VERY different. I don't think they will appeal much to the same crowd, so I guess I agree that Honda doesn't have anything to worry about as far as the Motus taking ST1300 buyers away.
Sitting on a Motus, if feels half the weight of the Honda and much smaller. Of course I haven't had the chance to ride one yet, but I am hopefull I will get that chance at some point. Personally, if the Motus is near the claimed HP and weight figures they are making, and I think it is, and with the seat height, handlebar, and foot pegs adjustability they are promising, I would LOVE to have one. If I can't afford one new, there will be used ones on the market eventually. Besides, I'm in no hurry.
I wish these guys all the success they hope for. I am so tired of the negativism that is so pervasive when someone is working so hard to make their vision a reality.
Yes, I'm pretty sure the bike was designed while they were riding the prototypes through California.....
If you mount your engine longitudinally, you deal with a single direction change regardless of final drive mechanism.
Love my K1200R, and the Motus seems like it may appeal to me as a sport-tourer. can't wait to check it out. As far as shaft drives, I think the day when they were an important alternative are done. For Guzzi and BMW they're more like a signature now.