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Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Reverend12, Sep 23, 2009.
My Buell S2T is parked out front today.
kirb I get it now.It is another overpriced niche product for a few snob$$$...too bad for us working stiffs.
Read the story that the MOTUS designer used to work for Confederate...
My bad !
How do you compare the VFR 1200,another V4 sport-tourer with the MOTUS ?
Probably not fast or sporty enough because of that "power sapping driveshaft"...
Anyways I think chains belong on moto-cross or race bikes but not street bikes for obvious reasons...
Bicycles are better of with chains too because you can't afford to sap anything if you only have 1 human pedal power...
Please show when Rossi, Lorenzo, and Stoner started using ABS, since it is against the rules.
Please stop making up "facts" to suit your preferences in a sport-tourer. If you don't like the Motus, design something better yourself.
No need to worry they will NOT "succeed". The concept of the bike is sound and the Chain drive on the bike they got right IMO. The problem MOTUS has is the type of bike they are building represents such a small segment of motorcycles in general. Sadly they will not be around for long. For those of you who plan to wait to buy one I wouldnt wait too long. For those who dont wait
You should have a great and rare ride.
wot oil for chain ? wot oil fer injun? wot erl fer tranny rear-end? wot oyl fir geerbocks ??
You don't know the price yet, so you don't know if it is out of the price is us 'stiffs'. I like rare stuff. Guess that makes me a snob.
Guess not...the fued rages...
I knew you were a fake n00b. Now you've confirmed it.
So your "source" is something you supposedly remember from some euro magazine, yet you can't produce a link or a reference to the article. That's about what I expected.
Again, a ring and pinion robs more power than a chain and sprockets:
Motorcycle chains are part of the drive train to transmit the motor power to the back wheel. While properly lubricated chains can reach an efficiency of more 98% in the transmission, unlubricated chains will significantly decrease performance and increase chain and sprockets wear.
Two distinct types of aftermarket lubricants are available for motorcycle chains, spray on lubricants and oil drip feed systems.
Spray lubricants may contain wax or PTFE. While these lubricants use tack additives to stay on the chain they can also attract dirt and sand from the road and over time produce a grinding paste that accelerates component wear.
Oil drip feed systems continuously lubricate the chain and use light oil that does not stick to the chain. Research has shown that oil drip feed systems provide the greatest wear protection and greatest power saving
Chain/belt drive DOES have an advantage over shaft drive, however. A shaft drive has a mechanical efficiency of around 80%. This means only 80% of the input power is transferred to the rear wheel. The efficiency of a chain/belt is mid 90%. The chain loses efficiency only due to friction internal to the chain and can be helped somewhat by frequent cleaning and lubrication of the chain, but this increases maintenance effort and time.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_...e_vs_belt_drive_on_a_motorcycle#ixzz1XJPB6q5i
While I think the 80% efficiency estimate is on the low side, the fact remains that even if a shaft drive design reaches 90% efficiency it still won't be as efficient as a chain.
But don't let the facts stop you from making a fool of yourself. Carry on.
Thanks for posting this, I've been looking for this information for some time as some of my co-worker's bikes are shaftdrive vs. my Ninja's chain. I also use a Scottoiler on my bike to keep the chain oiled and it works very well in that regard.
Ya know, considering I abused the hell out of my ST3 chain, hardley spitting any lube at it, and only adjusting it in fits of productivity when the harshness in on/off throttle transition, and it still lasted until almost 20k miles, I'm not going to say a word about how crappy chains are.
Do I like shaft? You betcha, I've got a couple old shaftie bikes, and all I ever do is change the shaft drive oil once a year or more often, and on one of them I've even taken the driveshaft off to lube the splines on the tranny output.
But I wouldn't let a lack of shaft/belt turn me away from a bike.
And if someone thinks a shaft drive saps less energy than a properly lined up and lubed (aka, drenched in lube every so often), I want some of the stuff you are smoking. :eek1 I may be wrong on this account, but I'm pretty sure it makes two additional turns, one at the rear wheel, and one in the transmission to get the shaft pointing towards the rear.
Same here - I stopped lubing the chains on my bikes around 5 years ago. I still check them regularly, of course, and always keep them clean. Never had a problem, and between tire changes and maintenance I don't remember the last time I've had to adjust a chain myself.
I think the absence of grime and dirt between the rubbing parts evens the whole thing out and the chain and sprockets end up lasting just as long (not to mention the bike remains spotless!). Modern, internally lubricated chains are great.
I tell you something Bueller.Chains rule !
Too bad FORD doesn't put them on their cars anymore since the good ol' days of the Thin Lizzy...
I'll bet they would outsell Honda and Toyota if they would only bring chaindrive back...
Even if you don't believe me;Guzzi and Boxer shaftdrive has the same frictional losses as chaindrive.
And with todays powerful motorcycle engines the convenience of a clean shaft by far outweighs a couple of percent of the parasitic losses of shaft driven inline-4's !
And it's great for the unsprung weight.
Even the high and mighty BMW conceded the the superiority of the chain on their F and G model motorcycles. In those applications when they didn't need ultimate strength they used a belt.
Sounds like your problem is you got the shaft and liked it
You did state something correct- Shaft drives do outweigh chain systems. They are much heavier. Another thing Motus was trying to keep down- overall bike weight.
Last thing I want is another sport touring rig that comes in at 650-700lbs wet. I got rid of my ST1100 to gain 50HP and now I can lose 100lbs at the same time? Keep your boat anchor shaft drive. I'll take a 530lbs wet weight bike any day.
A few percent HP losses don't concern me. Throwing around a bike in the twisties that is 100lbs lighter while maintaining 160hp? I'm still in. Naysayers stay home.
If MOTUS really had been serious to build a light bike they would have stayed away from a V4 that builds heavier than a inline-4 or any twin and for sure would not have mounted it sideways unless any other V4 except for Hondas ST1300.
This is the first chaindrive that will have as much parasitic loss and being as heavy as a shaftdrive with the additional gears to transform the power 90 degrees from the crank to the chain;sorry couldn't help it...
For sure they wouldn't have used Chevrolet automotive engineering to make a light motorcycle engine,and especially not a pushrod V4 with 1645cc.Why not beeing innovative and using a smaller engine that is supercharged and gets the same torque and power but is physically smaller with less weight?
It's safe to say that it will be lighter than a ST1300 but with 570lbs wet still much heavier than the 460 lbs wet shaft driven R1200S sports-tourer...
Anyways,time will tell who was right.
I wish them luck...
i believe the loss at the engine with a 90 degree drive,is much less than the loss at the rear gear, because typically there is very little if any reduction or multiplcation of the ratio at the engine.
With each new post your lack of mechanical knowledge becomes more and more glaring.
I'm surprised that Motus did not put shaft drive on their bike.