MSF Instructor was an MF'er

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Mrs6gun, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. California

    California Motorcyclist

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    It is not "preposterous" at all, as a matter of FACT, not all MSF-certified RC's are experts. I appreciate that these guys take the time to become instructors, and I applaud their attempts, but it simply is a FACT that not every body is doing the job they should be doing, or doing it right. I'm not condemning this particular instructor, he could just be having a bad day. On the other hand, Mrs6gun may have had her expectations too high. None of us know, none of us were there, and we've only heard one side of the story.

    Get the refund, take the class again from another instructor, and get on with you life. One instructor does not indicate all MSF instructors any more than one rider proves what all riders are like..
    #61
  2. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    The problem is that today there are far fewer drivers who have owned or driven a standard shift car. Trying to teach throttle/clutch/shift coordination to someone who has never done it should be done on a four wheeled vehicle first. Once the person understands the relationship of clutch and throttle, he can move on to two wheels. The advantage is that on four wheels, when you muff it, you won't fall down. It doesn't matter whether you clutch with your foot or hand, because what's being learned will transfer over.

    Of all of the people I've helped learn, those with standard shift experience have done better than those without.
    #62
  3. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    I don't see that it matters. If the student is even half competent, they will pick it up quickly and with no more risk to themselves than doing the same thing in a car
    #63
  4. warrior1677

    warrior1677 Been here awhile

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    It's a 16 hour course and can be broken up depending on class needs. In Fl during the summer we like to do the first 4 hours of class room at night during the week so we can be on and off the range before it gets to hot.
    #64
  5. warrior1677

    warrior1677 Been here awhile

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    I have never counseled any one out ant i have a 100% success rate, and I agree if could be a weakness on the coaches part if they counsel out a lot of people.
    #65
  6. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    So what do you call it when someone quits or crashes for a second time or is obviously a menace to themselves and everyone around them and needs to be made aware of that fact?

    In the first few, critical, exercises, you can often give the rest of the class a break while you do some one-on-one coaching. However, you can't let the student move on to the next exercise until they have "got it" and you can't keep the entire class for hours and hours. It's also counter-productive to keep coaching someone if they are overtired and overheated which is often the case.

    You have got a lot more stamina than me and 90% of my students if you think you could run till 8pm on a Louisiana summer day.
    #66
  7. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    That's absolutely fucking amazing!!! :bow Do you never fail anybody, no matter how bad they are or have you never had a late 50's, overweight, uncoordinated, heat-stressed student drop their bike a couple of times? Have you NEVER had someone who doesn't want to be there give up and quit - or simply not come back after lunch? EVERY single coach I have ever come across has had this happen multiple times. I want to know your secret.
    #67
  8. Capt Crash

    Capt Crash Been here awhile

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    Wait. For clarity: a 100% success rate means what? 100% pass the written and skill evaluation? 'Cause simple educational theory will call bullshit on that. IF you mean completion of class--they start and they are all there at the end? Then I'm shocked I've had people go home and shower, come back, and not understand why they can't complete. Likewise folks show up late on a range day there is no option you cannot let them ride...they go home.

    SO. What does 100% success mean?
    #68
  9. PSYCHO II

    PSYCHO II Crusty Demon

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    Perhaps if we knew how many classes they have conducted. The first class I conducted (here in Oz) I had a 100% success rate. Didn't last long. Perhaps he is not counting the ones that just walk away. Perhaps he uses garlic to achieve this result. More likely if it is across a large number then the BS factor comes to mind.:rofl
    #69
  10. duck

    duck Banned

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    I'm pretty sure that my instructor was an asshole.

    (Self-taught.)
    #70
  11. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    You obviously haven't had to teach someone who has no mechanical aptitude and has no idea what a clutch is to drive a standard shift car, much less a bike. It's a lot easier to learn the principle of clutch/throttle sync sitting in something that isn't going to fall over. Most guys who are motorheads don't have this problem and have trouble visualizing it. It has nothing to do with competency, because the student in this case is not competent to operate anything with a clutch and knows nothing about it. We're talking about someone who hasn't a clue, and is trying to learn the basics in three days. If you put someone like this on a bike, they'll either dump it or hit something, and likely give up. I'd rather that they didn't have that unpleasant experience.
    #71
  12. tedder

    tedder irregular

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    Unlike safety skills on a motorcycle, that personality comes natural for some of us. No self-teaching required.
    #72
  13. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    Dang. Another bloodless castration. Shogs must be a doctor or a nurse...

    Well-put.
    #73
  14. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    You sound exactly like about half the MSF instructors I know. All of that half scare the hell out of me to ride with!:deal

    Jim :brow
    #74
  15. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    No doubt about it!:lol3

    Jim :brow
    #75
  16. dbuzz

    dbuzz Citizen of the world

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    somehow this vid seems appropriate at this point :rofl

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PNcDI_uBGUo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #76
  17. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

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    When I took my MSF class it was a great experience for me. But, truth be told, one of the instructors treated the women different. One woman was there because she wanted to get a scooter. Not even a scooter that needed to be licensed. She was excited to learn to ride and very attentive. But that instructor was far less patient with her than with others. He certainly addressed me differently. In fact, he was pretty ornery to the point that the woman was in tears at one point (not in front of him, thankfully) She failed the practical at the end. Not sure by how much, but couldn't have been much. I watched everybody take their practicals. Some of the gray area scoring didn't seem to go her way. I have no idea if she tried to get her license again - I hope so, but doubt it given her MSF experience.

    Another woman was also treated poorly, although she clearly wasn't ready for the road. But she didn't need to be yelled at like a drill sergeant either.

    I don't think there's really a solution other than complaining to the management, for whatever that's worth. Some people are just assholes and sometimes you just need to work your way around them.
    #77
  18. dolomoto

    dolomoto Destroyer of Motorcycles

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    I'll play.

    I've had students total motorcycles. Crash into hard obstacles...100m off the range. Seen them crash into cars...in a parking lot adjacent to the range. I've called an ambulance a few times. Those riders...didn't return based on their own decision.

    I've seen riders drop their moto...2, 3, 20 times. Each time, me (or one of my other RC's) were there to help them up and get them riding again. For sure, some of them ran WAAAAAY wide in the corners. I blew my whistle, got the rest of the riders stopped and got the hapless rider back onto the range....'cause you know, I was there to help folks learn BASIC motorcycle skills.

    Many of the other students got frustrated the the course was held up by "that guy". Well, guess what?! "That Guy" is gonna be out there, no matter what. Maybe, just maybe, tis' better to learn how to deal with "that guy" on a range vs. out in traffic? As for "that guy"...they may not score the minimum to get an MSF card...but, if they stick it out to the end...they may not ever ride a motorcycle....BUT, I GUARANTEE you, they will be a better car driver.

    :norton
    #78
  19. Mrs6gun

    Mrs6gun Adventurer

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    Thanks Butters for your input. You are correct. Also, thanks to all others who had positive advice to give me. I have chosen to ignore the ones who had negative things to say to me. My perception is that I had a bad experience and the damage is done. I will be reporting my experience to MSF. They can do with it what they wish. As for me, I am moving on and will get a bike and learn on my own at my pace. I am done with this thread. Enough said.:wave
    #79
  20. Capt Crash

    Capt Crash Been here awhile

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    Dolomoto--We are clearly different because I've sent a few students home (maybe 5 in 10 years)...and you've sent them home in ambulances (I've never had to call emergency services).

    So...How does a ride home in the ambulance NOT count against the 100% success rate?
    #80