My 60csx failed me on my trip...waa, waa,waa

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by HOFNAR, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. 250senuf

    250senuf Long timer

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    Were the 60s that suffered broken antenae in a RAM cradle mounted on the left side of the bar (front brake line snag)? Stovebolt's cradle seems to me to be quite BOMBproof. And as DRZCharlie mentioned, some people seem to have the "ability" or misfortune to damage almost anything. :D
    #21
  2. BigStick

    BigStick Discovering

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    Perfect!

    I like my 60csx! Some folks don't want to listen - 'tape the batteries', 'add a rubber band to ensure it stays in the RAM mount', 'watch out for your brake line', and 'attach it also with a lanyard as an added security'.

    The only problems I've ever had with my 60csx were because of...ME!

    -'Stick!
    #22
  3. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    or just get a 76, stick it in RAM mount and don't worry about any thing.
    #23
  4. 9Dave

    9Dave Bazinga!

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    :nod

    For every story about someone breaking their {fillin the model name here} there are as many that have no problem.
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  5. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    I don't think so!

    Garmin sold many thousands of 60s. At most a few hundred have had one of the problems, so like all products, it is many many many many with no problem. This is true with all cosumer products, the failure rate must be a very small percent or the product will not sell.

    Any story about NOT having a problem with a consumer product has ZERO data. The main reason is that no one reports "no problem". The failure rate is simply the number of failures reported divided by the number produced. The only data is in how many have had a problem. In the case of the 60, it is quite obvious that the RAM cradle has a very significant problem as reported on many threads.

    The cure is simple, just use a seat belt (zip tie or rubber band) and it won't fall out.
    #25
  6. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I used a 60cx for about 3-4 years on lots of very rough rides including mountain single track. I also had several pretty bad crashes. The unit did come out of the Ram mount a couple of times.

    I wrapped the lanyard around the mount so it could only move a few inches when it did come out.

    And near the end of my usage I did use a rubber band because the rubber part near the bottom was rubbing off.

    I never had any damage.

    I did have a couple of instances where the unit would turn off on its own. I fixed this by opening the unit and bending the tabs that connect power from the battery to the main circuit boards and putting dielectric grease on them. This usually worked for a year or so.
    #26
  7. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    My partner's came out on lanyard, face hit fork leg, smashed glass.
    #27
  8. pckopp

    pckopp Aged Adventurer

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    My friend's popped out, he ran over it on his R1200R and it works perfectly to this day. Go figure.
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  9. 9Dave

    9Dave Bazinga!

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    You know what opinions are like, Jerry?

    You spout yours like gospel - which they are not.

    Here's my data - I have had a 60CsX for about 5 years. I've used it on and off road. It's been through lots of low speed biffs, tipovers, etc. It's always been in a ram mount, never come out. And while I've never fractured the ram mount, I do keep the lanyard looped around the handlebar just in case.
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  10. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Dave, these are not my opinions they are accepted ways of doing reliability analysis. I base this on my education with an MS in engineering, teaching college, and about 30 years of working on NASA contracts. After 10 years of retirement Boeing ask me to come back and help with a new maned space vehicle because the team had no one with my depth of experience. In my line of work, reliability is the top design paramater. People will die if we make a design error.

    Relialibity is usually specified in MTBF (Mean time Between Failures) but this is more like qualifying a lot for shipment in which case we specify PDA (Percent Defect Allowable). In this case we test a lot qual sample. You hope that none fail but only so many are allowed to fail. You don't count the sucesses, you set the sample size. In the case of a consumer product it would be the number of all produced. In qual, you only count the failures and with a consumer product you only count the failures. You expect none to fail so counting the number that do not fail has no information. All the information is in the number that failed. So any story that my car, dish washer, TV, GPS, etc did not fail is meaningless. A report of sever products that have the exact same failure is quick evidance that there probably is a systemic design flaw. A good example are the two batteries that overheated in our new Dreamliner. Two identical failures and all plans were grounded. I read that not 2 but at least 10 if not 20 people have had 60s pop out of RAM mount, there is no doubt that there is a systemic design flaw with this design.

    Subjective opinion about you like something is valid but reliability calculations are very well established and based on data.
    #30
  11. StoneAgeMan

    StoneAgeMan Wanderer

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    For simple folk like me, if 2 out of 2,000 things have a failure is pretty different than 2 out of 200,000 having the same failure. By a couple orders of magnitude.

    I find that knowing "number not failed", along with "number failed", of a product to be quite useful.

    StoneAge Man
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  12. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Absolutly true, if you somehow knew the number that didn't fail then you know the number that did fail (# produced less # didn't fail = # failed).

    However just knowing that 10 out of say 10,000 produced did not fail just means that all you do know is that less than 9,980 did fail. Not much information there.
    #32
  13. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    What defines the failure here anyway? If a gps "fails" because it was torn out of its mount by a tree branch then driven over by a wheel, then I'd say that's not really a failure of the gps since it wasn't designed to survive that.

    Or is it the design of the RAM mount for the 60 which is flawed?

    I'd say that there are fewer failures of the 76 reported simply because it was less popular. That's probably why they ran out of 60s long before the 76, after both were discontinued.

    I really liked my 60 until Garmin started making units with better map capabilities. I had 2 X 60C, and a 60CSx and my wife had the 76S as well as a 76CSx.
    #33
  14. freeflow

    freeflow get in or go in

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    I jammed an earplug there, under the batteries. Keeps the batteries from vibrating and power loss too :deal
    #34
  15. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Good idea. Foam earplugs are versatile.
    #35