My 950 Refresh or Mission Creep...

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by sakurama, May 5, 2009.

  1. Katoom119

    Katoom119 Mmmm....Orange Kool-aid

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    Nah, much as I'd like I've got to be back beginning in August to get everything squared away for fall semester. Padre and I are leaving Anchorage about July 20 to head back home. I might be headed down towards the Lost Coast so I can meet KatoomWife and one of her friends in California so I may just start heading down Highway 1 at the Canadian border. If so, beers are still on me.
  2. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    I hate taking the bandsaw to nice billet parts. :(:

    [​IMG]
    1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 fingers, check! :thumb


    But then cleaning it up in the mill makes me feel better. :1drink

    [​IMG]

    More coming soon....
  3. mookymoo

    mookymoo Mookish Mook

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    Any further work planned on the choke? Or is it shelved for the moment?
  4. sakurama

    sakurama on an endless build

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    I think it's on hold for the moment. Chris is deep into the 2wd conversion and since we can't run it until that's complete now it's going to be on hold. I'm going to be pushing for that though as I think it's the final part of the FCR puzzle but at the moment I'm neck deep in house remodeling so it's not on my radar right now either. We will pick it up again and hopefully get it figured.

    Gregor
  5. mookymoo

    mookymoo Mookish Mook

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    Righto. Sounds like nothing going to happen for a while then :lol3
  6. Pete640

    Pete640 I hate sand.......

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    Arrrggghhhhh.. I want some 39s and Id really like chokes.....
  7. wiseblood

    wiseblood Hall Monitor

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  8. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    While I'm still waiting on some output sprocket parts from Christini focus was changed to the headstock gearbox assembly. Since I don't want to weld on the replacement headstock we need to accurately measure the new bearing spacing so that the bevel drive input gear is properly located.

    After some careful measuring and machining of the existing parts I was able to fit the standard KTM head bearings and seals. This setup is merely to allow for alignment checks and smooth operation and all of the internal headstock parts will be remade without shims and spacers.

    [​IMG]

    Now I can fit the new triple clamp assembly into the headstock to verify locations and alignment.

    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]

    Now knowing that it all actually fits together I need to determine the location of the input shaft relative to the steering bearing seat. This is crucial because the frame needs to be drilled and a bearing support installed and if done in the wrong location would mean a noisy gearbox at best and at worst a non-functioning gearbox.

    To do this i needed to make a test headstock where I could machine the input shaft in its likely position and then shim the steering bearings until I got a proper gear mesh. Once done shimming I know exactly where everything needs to be. All of the relevant surfaces were machined so getting accurate measurements should be easy.

    I started with a block of aluminum held in a vice in the 4 axis mill.
    [​IMG]

    In several operations I machined the input and headstock bearing bores and a couple of inspection windows to allow for direct backlash measurement.

    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]

    With the assembly test fixture done its time for a test assembly.
    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]

    With a few thousandths of shimming I was able to get excellent gear mesh.


    Now that I have all the many components done I need to make a drilling/welding fixture for the actual frame modifications.

    It will look something like this and allow me to drill out the access hole, machine a bearing support for a tight fit into the hole, and then hold it in proper alignment for welding. Getting as snug a fit in the drilled hole as possible will eliminate any distortion due to gaps in the fitup.

    [​IMG]

    I should get the sprocket parts this week which will allow me to finalize the idler gear shaft centers and start to draw up some chain support and housing parts.

    Once that is done it will be time to start molesting the frame in earnest.
  9. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    >>Arrrggghhhhh.. I want some 39s and Id really like chokes.....

    Once the bike is together enough to start I'll try to do some more work on the chokes. At this point the only option is jet size so once the bike is together a little more testing will be a definitive yes or no. I only hope the weather is still cold enough to test cold starting.
  10. sakurama

    sakurama on an endless build

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    I am at once thrilled and slightly disappointed that all this work will be almost completely invisible when this is done. Great work Chris. :clap

    Gregor
  11. kamanya

    kamanya Andrew to most

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  12. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    >>Would this not help you?
    Thanks for the link, it will definitely be a help. :beer

    Someone spent a lot of time scanning and modelling! Its the right color too.
  13. Pete640

    Pete640 I hate sand.......

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    That is a beautiful frame. Its a pity its covered by the tanks and fairings mostly isnt it??? Love the digital scanning thats available now.

    No rush on the FCR's - I'll prolly be shipping them with a frame when you get it worked out. :deal
  14. kamanya

    kamanya Andrew to most

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    I looked at the frame in CAD, it still needs some work. A mounting tab is off the frame and one pipe is not extruded to the headstock and ends in midair.

    Also, I'm not sure that its an adventure frame, it's definitely not a 950 adventure frame.
  15. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    >>A mounting tab is off the frame and one pipe is not extruded to the headstock and ends in midair.

    Maybe a conversion problem? Importing it into Pro-E resulted in a very clean model with nothing hanging in midair. I emailed the creator and he said it was good for +/-1mm, not too bad. From my initial measurements the headstock area is very close.

    >>it's definitely not a 950 adventure frame.

    I'm not sure but think that the base frame for all the 950 models are the same and the only difference in in brackets and such. There are subtle differences to the frame I have here but the tubes all seem to be the same.


    >>I'll prolly be shipping them with a frame when you get it worked out.

    Don't forget the forks too! :deal
  16. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    Got some more time in on the chain runs and now have a mock-up I am comfortable moving forward with.

    Initial short chain run allows use of unmodified stock fuel tank and leaves area around rider's shin and legs completely open. There's just enough room to fit an o-ring chain to keep maintenance intervals long.
    [​IMG]

    The secondary long chain run to the transfer case will be in a completely sealed housing. The underdrive ratio will be adjustable by changing one or both of the sprockets in this run. There will be chain guides and a tension system inside the housing similar to a camchain setup. This chain does not need to be an o-ring chain due to the sealed housing so will minimize lost Hp.
    [​IMG]

    Also finalizing the bevel drive input shaft arrangement that needs to be welded to the back of the hedstock. The green piece is a female threaded spigot that welds into the frame. The red piece is the bevel input shaft 'cartridge' and is male threaded and has the bearings and seals and threads into the spigot. This will allow easy shimming of the input shaft to get proper gear engagement. It will also serve as the inspection window. On the twins a lot of stuff mounts onto the front of the steering tube so having an inspection window there (where the Christini one is) would be a problem.
    [​IMG]

    To make it all fit there need to be some revisions to the coolant exit lines from the cylinders and the rear cylinder temperature sensor. The mods are not too bad and I am trying to source OEM motorcycle parts as replacements to avoid the need for custom components on replaceable parts. It should not be an issue but I want to make maintenance as brainless as possible as these bikes will do a lot of miles.

    I'm waiting for some stuff to come in so will lay off for a week or so and put some time into boring work.
  17. kamanya

    kamanya Andrew to most

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    Although the frames are all similar, there is a difference in headstock angles for the Adventure, Super Enduro, Super Duke and Super Motard;

    Adv head angle - 63.4 Wheel base 1570mm
    SE head angle - 64.4 Wheel base 1577mm
    SM head angle - 64.6 Wheel base 1510mm
    SD head angle - 66.5 Wheel base 1438mm
  18. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Probably achieved using the suspension hight not by changing the frame.

    I had a 950sm and a 950se in the workshop at the same time so I compared the two and the head stock was the same angle in relation to the frame on both bikes.
    The only differene I could see was in the brackets for mounting the tanks, centre stand and a few other things.
  19. sakurama

    sakurama on an endless build

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    Yeah, I was going to say that too. Keep in mind that in addition to lower suspension a 17" front wheel vs a 21" will affect the head angle as well. Triple clamps can be used to change offset to adjust trail but I think the basic frame itself is going to be essentially identical which makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint.

    I love seeing that small additional chain coming off the countershaft. This is like putting a supercharger on a camaro (for you Chris) but not cutting through the hood - just a few subtle tells here and there. I love sleepers. This bike will be quite the monster with the 16T counter if that's what we have to go to. Say hello 3rd and 4th gear wheelies! Man, I can't wait to ride this bike. Again.

    Gregor
  20. CosentinoEngineering

    CosentinoEngineering Been here awhile

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    >>This bike will be quite the monster with the 16T counter if that's what we have to go to. Say hello 3rd and 4th gear wheelies! Man, I can't wait to ride this bike. Again.

    You can always drop the rear to a 38 or 39 to get the gearing back to what it would be with a 17 front. And a 17 front may work, it depends on how much case grinding you want to do. I am planning on having one piece sprockets made and it would be easier to only make one size but it would not be the end of the world to make 2. Also, don't forget that changing rear gearing will affect the front wheel underdrive ratio. I don't think adventure riding is like roadracing where you have a specific setup for each track so with the 2WD you find the gearing you like and stick with it.