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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by chunter, Jan 3, 2009.
Ill try to hook mine up and see what it says tomorrow
Well ... if it make sense your FSV is 1 notch higher than mine....
I think FSV stands for Freken Softverk Veksion ...
Ok seriously I didn't think it had a big chance of being the firmware, now I think the chance is almost nil.
I had an early bike build and did have the problem which the firmware did fix, but I think you have something else going on...
As a general comment O'Reilly Auto Parts has a "buy one get one free" sale going for Techron fuel system cleaner.
A good maintanence product for BMW owners to have on hand ............
I have a 2011 F800GS with Remus Manifold and Exhaust.
In 8000 miles or so, I have had no stalling issues thus far.
My friend has a 2013 F800GS with about 1000 miles on it and she has had two stalling incidences, so far.
I asked her the specifics:
She said: First time. Went out to bike in morning. It was 60° dry. Bike would not start. She said bike was on its side stand. She turned the key on. The lights did their thing. (Paused.) Then hit the starter button and it would not start. She opened the gas tank. No sound of air. No vacuum sound. She closed the tank lid and the F800GS started without incident, and ran fine the rest of the day.
Next time it happened:
45° dry. Riding in traffic, in third gear. Approaching a red traffic light, she pulled in the clutch, with the intention of shifting down to neutral, to wait out the light. The bike sputtered and acted like it was going to stall.
She told me she put the bike in first and rolled on the accelerator to keep the bike from dying. Pulled in the clutch at the light and had the RPMs up so the bike would not stall. She said it sounded like the battery was dying or she was out of gas. She kept the rpm's up at every other light she stopped at, and finally pulled over a couple miles later, at a motorcycle shop to have things looked at.
She said she put the bike on its side stand and it was idling fine. She looked at the gas gauge and it was reading low. She had just filled the gas tank recently. She knew this was a false reading. She said she was puzzled. (What?) - Then the bike died. Stalled - While parked and idling in neutral on its side stand.
She took the key out of the ignition and opened the gas tank. No sound of vacuum. Closed the tank. Put the key back in the ignition. Looked at the gas gauge and it read almost full, now. She started the bike. Rode to her appointment and the bike didn't act up again, so far. The service rep told her that a batch of bad gas has been causing all sorts of vehicles the same problem. Cars included and sold her some fuel injector cleaner to add to her gas. - More later
The 2013 F800GS made a burping noise tonight. Sounded like a strange noise from the tank. No loss of power. After being told this I asked my friend to stop and we investigated. I opened the tank with the key on the 2013 F800GS and it whistled air. I opened my tank on my 2011 F800GS and there was no noise what so ever. We both filled up at the same pump at the same petrol station. Hmmm?
After by passing side stand switch, have you had anymore issues?
Have you had any problems since?
BMW is also replacing my fuel pump. Hope it solves the problem and the controller is still good. At least something is being done in the right direction.
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So I've got the 2008 f650 twin (very modified) and i'm at about 63,000 km. I let it sit in the cold for about 6 weeks unstarted with a low tank. I know. stupid.
In the past it had stalled on the very odd occasion but not enough to worry. Since the recent stupidity it has been stalling very regularly. It tends to be less happy after the bike has been running for about 30 minutes. It has mostly been stalling at a stop with the clutch in or when starting but has recently been stalling in 2nd gear at moderately slow speeds. OH, and it's worse since I took it into the dealer to have them update my software for a nice $140 fee (the hourly rate plus a new fuel pump seal). They say they see nothing wrong, but I have very little faith in what they know or have the ability to figure out.
Now my bike seems to be able to restart without having to turn the key off and on, albeit with sometimes quite a struggle from the starter.
Reading the comments from one inmate (sorry, forget his handle as i'm typing this but he seems to really know his stuff... along with great comments from JR Wooden who's opinion I also respect) it seems that if i'm able to restart without having to turn the key off and on my first part replacement choice would be the Fuel Pump Controller (yes, no?). and then second would be the fuel pressure sensor? and third the fuel pump?... I saw this link on the previous page:
and it seems to be a shitload cheaper than the BMW part... but then again BMW parts seem to be at least double any more comparable aftermarket part.
Seeing as I got one of the first bikes in North America to roll off the boats I've been dealing with quite a variety of warranty and non warranty issues but this is really the one that has me very pissed off seeing as I have no confidence to go for even a quick spin or ride to work, let alone heading off into the backcountry a couple of hundred miles.
OH, I've also been trying the water remover additive and the ride today I tried the ethanol removal additive. I can't seem to find the HEET for non diesel around here but not sure if that will do me any good anyway.
My guess is that by sitting unstarted with a low tank in the cold has created enough condensation that whatever part/parts in the fuel pump have probably been damaged. Although it seems odd that the dealer doesn't have the ability to tell me this. My pessimistic guess is that they looked at it and said.. 'looks fine to me Jed, how 'bout you?'.
So, to end my rant, my question is that for replacing parts one at a time am I best to go in this order:
1) Fuel Pump Controller
2) Fuel Pressure Sensor (which i can't even find the part on the microfiche)
3) Fuel Pump (the aftermarket one... which i'm not even sure if that will work for the 650 twin).
I"m a big fan of Techron although in this case I'm not "sure" it will fix your problem,
but if the problem came on suddenly after sitting for 6 weeks I would say odds are pretty good that it might fix you up...
I'd get a big bottle and put 4oz / tank or a bit more till the bottle was gone ....
Do you have access to GS-911?
Did the dealer computer pull any stored failure codes?
I'd try to get a read on the computer before swapping parts........ there might be something helpful?
How often are we talking here on the stalling?
Does it seem to get worse when tank is low on fuel?
Pump is partly cooled by fuel which doesn't work well when tank runs low......
Stalling after you have been riding for a while would lean to the pump getting hot...
One of the recent developments is that a number of folks have found that the fuel filter seems to be loading up at fairly low miles... obviously this puts a strain on the pump and makes the bike less predictable since it's no longer operating as centrally in its fuel system mapping ... well that's my half-assed story anyway.........
BMW does not sell the filter separately, but we've got a thread going on other options here:
I've not done it myself, but several folks have used this pump (also on eBay) on the twins with apparent good results:
Apparently the fuel pump controller has also been superseded by a new one with dark power coat finish vs. our raw aluminnum...
I am suffering with some first model year pains as well...
I don't think you can get techron in Canada other than in small amounts in chevron gas. And on the fuel filter front I'm not sure what part of that whole assembly is the filter and how to go about flushing it [EDIT] is the filter that little bag that they are labelling as a strainer at the bottom of the fuel pump assembly??
is this the fuel filter?....
Thats the Bosch fuel pump. The deliberately non replaceable filter is inside the plastic just inside of where the #1 points.
Mark, some Chevron stations have it on a shelf in the same area as the oil and washer fluid and whatnot. Black bottle with a long neck, goes for about 12 bucks usually. Really is good stuff.
If you think a GS911 will help -you can borrow mine, just let me know.
If you really want to figure out between controller or pump you will have to bypass the controller or at least check it's output to the pump at the time when the bike fails to run. I have no wiring diagrams with which to assist you though.
Thanks bayner. I looked in one chevron previously but didn't see any. I'll have to check more out.
Now I've got to check out that other thread and figure out how to flush the filter. Sounds like a good first step to me. Well second after the techron.
FWIW my mother-in-law's 2008 F650 twin had stalling issues for years. Her husband's identical bike didn't. She would pull up to a light and the engine would die like she hit the kill switch, and it would always start right back up. They had it to the dealer many times and eventually it was determined that the stator was shorting out. It was replaced ($1000!) and the problem has never recurred once.
Just saying, don't make assumptions about where the problem is.
Wow.... I'd like to understand that stator thing better... :huh
Some folks back-flushing their permanent filter gotten loads of crap out of them which surprises me.... maybe ethanol is dissolving the tank...
I'm also surprised you guys up north can't buy Techron over the counter...but maybe you can indulge your bike with what I believe is BMW-labeled techron? The distinctive containers look very similar ...
BMW fuel system cleaner:
Techron fuel system cleaner:
Check any local Napa or Lordco stores for SeaFoam as well, works very well to stabilize/clean fuel. It's cheaper in the US but my local Lordco carries it for $8-9 a bottle. Another one is Amsoil's Quickshot if you know anyone who is a dealer or Canadian Tire usually stocks some Amsoil stuff. Both of those work as well as Techron.
All great info folks. I'm going to try and find the techron but if I can't find it will look for the alternate. Have to find the biggest Chevron in the area. Will be doing that and taking the fuel pump apart to back flush the filter with carb cleaner. Hopefully within the next week.
Also had a good conversation with the service manager at the Jeep dealership while my Jeep was being serviced. His thoughts seem to jive with all the stuff we've been saying here... oh, he owns a Yamaha F1. You, know, one of those japanese things that have less than half the problems of our 'rugged' adventure bikes.
I'll post what my results are.
Chevron does not sell Techron anymore in Canada (conversation with Chevron manager). Any product that is seen on a shelf is strictly that it hasn't sold yet from inventory.
I have purchased the SeaFoam and have that in my tank currently. So far so good except for when I pulled a bit of a wheelie. the bike stalled out about 5 seconds later. Mental note: no more wheelies.
I also purchsed the BMW techron from the dealer and will be using that on the next tank after the seafoam has run through.
Also, I purchased an 1150gs fuel filter which I will install if there is no progress from the chemicals.
Then, after that, aftermarket fuel pump and remove injectors to be cleaned... then if no progress Fuel Pump Controller and then Fuel Pressure Sensor.
The upside off all of this is that I get to do more tinkering and learn more about the mechanics and diagnostics for the bike for future issues.
Now 8000 km in mine stalls a lot too. I even have a couple on video on my YouTube :|. Often happens after a stint of highway when trying to filter to the front of a traffic light, that makes it annoying and dangerous too :|