My First Verigo & TRS Rides

Discussion in 'Trials' started by motobene, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. heffergm

    heffergm Long timer

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    There are three being ridden in NETA. One in intermediate and two in advanced. What do you want to discuss?

    Beyond those I know of a few in Canada and few others scattered around North America. I see a lot of them in European championships, as well in Japan.
    #41
  2. fano

    fano here and there

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    We have six of them in our local club WTA and everyone seems to like them.
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  3. Grooster

    Grooster Face Plant Specialist

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    We have 3 Vertigo riders in AVTA. 1 Master, 1 Sr. Expert, & 1 Intermediate. Great bikes, well made! I've heard a 4th Vertigo (Ice Hell) is joining the group, too. I think he'll be riding Sr. Amateur.
    #43
  4. Harry Potter

    Harry Potter Been here awhile

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    Well i had nothing in particular to discuss, just like dropping eaves. I would guess from here that Vertigo riders take their Trials ridong very-very seriously. I haven't seen anybody say though that once you have FI you can't go back to a carb.
    #44
  5. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Again, at tech inspection at the TX nationals, the majority of balky starters were FI bikes.

    I like the idea of playing with maps, but the stark simplicity of carburetors appeals.
    #45
  6. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    Mike said Freixa's Montesa took ten kicks to start cold, when they visited at the Tryals Shop Tuesday. Fuel for that bike comes from Spain.
    #46
  7. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Wonder why that is, and if riders learn to position the throttle 'just so' and other tricks to not have balky starting?

    One of the mapping tricks to reduce hyperactive on and especially off, to not have the sudden braking typical to the 2005 4RT, is to provide more fuel at and off idle. Not sure how a Freixa bike is mapped, but I suspect it's not for reduced emissions.

    FI in cars results in very good starting, but cars have far more sensors and much more code in the ECMs.
    #47
  8. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    I would guess that Freixa's isn't standard, most 4RT's are a don't touch the throttle or you will have more issues starting.

    If they don't start in the first 2 to 4 kicks they often need a rest, witch is at least 2 more pushes through the full motion of the kick starter with the kill switch pushed (or magnet off) before a second attempt at starting witch can be 2 more kicks (pushes). So an easy 8 kicks if it doesn't start first try.
    #48
  9. heffergm

    heffergm Long timer

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    Freixa's 4rt is about as close to stock as Bou's is.
    #49
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  10. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    I had the impression that Freixa's is a modified version of the 300RR and that it was quite modified, however I wouldn't know what modifications it has other than programmable throttle body though I could make some educated guesses.
    #50
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  11. laser17

    laser17 Long timer

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    I wonder if it has the ultra-trick & and uber expensive solid Tungsten crank that Toni's bike has?
    #51
  12. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    No minimum weight in AMA unlike FIM, so probably lighter than Toni's bike. Mike said there is lots of titanium parts. Marc offered to let Mike ride it, but by the time he was ready... they had loaded up to leave.

    I may have not gotten the story straight, but Mike said Marc's minder is a pig farmer back in Spain and doesn't even own a motorcycle, but rides really well. There wasn't anything in the shop sections he couldn't ride, although Marc would yell at him along the lines of "You're going to die!" or something like that in Spanish. Mike's limited Italian is better than his Spanish, so he wasn't sure! I wish I didn't have to work that day.....
    #52
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  13. motomofo

    motomofo Been here awhile

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    From the exterior, Freixa's bike isn't nearly as trick as Bou or Fujinami's bikes. I doubt it has the legendary unobtanium crankshaft that is rumored to be on lease to the Repsol team from Honda. Shan Moore's magazine reported that the engine is the same one Freixa used last year, and used the year before by Cody Webb. A true 300, if I remember correctly.

    Probably closer to the Montesas ridden in the Trial2 class?
    #53
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  14. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    Once again... apologies for the derail!:y0!
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  15. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Derails are a normal human brain thing.

    What we need are more TRS and Vertigo riders here talking about THEIR machines.

    Matter of fact we just need more trials riders....
    #55
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  16. heffergm

    heffergm Long timer

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    Ok, well... I'm always a little loathe to talk about my own bike, because generally the latest one you're riding is always the best. But... (this is regarding the vertigo)

    I love the fuel injection. It's probably the best thing about the bike. The immediacy of changes in throttle position compared to a carb bike is where you notice it. It takes some getting used to, but once you do and then go ride a bike with a carb again, it feels like there's a wet blanket between your right wrist and the motor.

    The second best thing about the bike is the frame layout. With no airbox by your calves bloating the frame, there's a surprising amount of additional space there to move around, and you really become aware of it when you get back on a different bike.

    The geometry took some getting used to. You're really up over the bike rather than in it like a gasgas. There's more weight over the front that you carry on your wrists. It's a lot more stable turning. Not as frisky : the front end isn't as immediately willing to come up, but it feels a lot less nervous than a gasgas. Similarly with rear hops, if your technique sucks like mine does, it's more work to get the rear end up. It turns tighter than a gasgas. It's not as crazy as a beta, but it also never gets to the point you can tuck the front.

    The clutch is good, although marginally not as good as my GG (which has a Xiu clutch in it). It's lacking a little feel in comparison, although the lever is a less dead, so I guess maybe it's a wash.

    The suspension and the brakes are both found on other top level models and they work nicely. The gearbox took a good number of hours to loosen up, but it's very positive, and the gearing is good out of the box. I tend to run anything from 1st to 3rd in sections, 4th would make a good hill climb gear, and 5th is perfect on the loop.

    I'm at 60 hours now. The output shaft seal is leaking a bit, so that will get fixed soon. The chain tensioner I may have bent, but I tend to think they just left so little clearance between the chain and the tensioner mount bolt that it rubs anyway. The front fender rattles like crazy, even after shimming the mounts.

    Other than that, nothing has failed. I've crashed a bit, nothing broken there, although that's luck as much as anything else. The linkage doesn't have a mark on it, it's very well protected. Also easy to service. Oil changes and air filter service are both cake. The oil does get dirty really quickly relative to the GG.

    Changes I'd like to see: inboard chain adjusters, ala gasgas. Protected axle bolt, again ala gasgas. Exhaust header mount bolts could be more substantial. Can't think of anything else...

    Oh wait, I can. The fan is loud as hell. Although I never notice it at events.
    #56
  17. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    Thanks heffergem that's an awesome post! :thumb

    I know I am talking Montesa not Vertigo but I agree with the comment that EFI has a lot more instant affect and carborated bikes seem to feel as though they are just soggy by comparison. :ricky

    I sure hope I can get a chance to take a ride on a Vertigo some time soon just for a chance to compare one to my Montesa.
    #57
  18. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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    Sorry to continue the derail but I just wanted to clarify a few things. First of all, Yes Marc's minder is a pig farmer AND a musician/DJ. Eduardo is Marc's brother in law and while he does not have a bike at the moment, he has in the past. He rides well for a pig farmer. Yes, their banter is colorful, exactly what you would expect from brother's in law that are more like brothers.

    Marc's bike did take a few extra kicks to start that day at the Tryals Shop, it happens every time he has cleaned and oiled the air filter. After that it's a one or two kick job.

    jonnyc21, the Re-Set procedure for the EFI is one kick with the throttle wide open. I have heard different versions before but yours is a new one. Maybe something I don't know about?

    Marc's bike is a stock 300 RR with the following changes: It has a S3 kit 300cc installed. Most of the nuts and bolts are titanium. The exhaust is one of the used ones from the works bikes. We get to "borrow" it from the works boys. The rest of the bike is standard. Suspension is stock but it's adjusted to his tastes. Yes, it is like the bikes prepared for Trial 2 class.

    No, there are no Tungsten inserts in the crank. The only reason those were used in the past on the works bikes was to add flywheel effect. Just like many riders add a flywheel weight.

    Yes, it is the same motor Marc used last year and Cody used also. The reason for this is so that the hours are controlled and a history is kept. Any race department worth it's salt does this as standard procedure. It is not a "one off" as reported.

    Yes, we ran Repsol race gas this season. The reason was that the works team ships over their race gas (again a control) for the USGP. They shipped a little extra this year so we could use it. Otherwise we would just use VP race gas.

    Norman I wish you could have stopped by the Tryals Shop that day I would have enjoyed meeting you. Geoff Aaron stopped by so it was an all star day. The Tryals Shop has seen many of the worlds best riders visit over the years. Many teams used it as a stop over prior to an eastern US world round. Fuji, Michaud, Miglio, Ahvala, Colomer, Amos ....they have all been there.
    #58
  19. 3dtrialsclub

    3dtrialsclub Adventurer

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    See u in Arizona Martin!!!
    #59
  20. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

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    When Marc retires from the Nationals, Amos would be a popular replacement.... Mike loves that guy!
    I hope to meet you sometime....
    #60