My Honda Elite 150 experimentation thread, jump in!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by kawasakifreak77, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. kawasakifreak77

    kawasakifreak77 the Asphalt Cowboy

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    Okay guys & gals, I've jumped into the scootering scene...

    [​IMG]

    She's a '85 Elite 150 I snagged for $600. I've been told that I got a good deal... Of course I'm an ex car salesman & tight ass at heart! :rofl

    So anyways, ladies & gents, I could use a bit of help here being new to all this twist & go stuff. I'm mechanically inclined & she runs out pretty decent I think.

    In the past day I've topped off the tires, changed the oil, adjusted the brakes, put a couple ounces of seafoam in the tank, taken off the right mirror (useless anyways) & the top case. I've also rode about 200 miles already! I've just got a few things to tackle I believe...

    Any help greatly appreciated!

    First off, I weigh maybe 150lbs & can barely get 55 topped out. Of course this is on flat ground, not tucked in & I live in Kansas, which means I'm almost always fighting some sort of wind. I tucked in today & got over 60 but as soon as I sat back up I was down to 55 again. I'm expecting a bit more. Is this about right?

    I'm getting between 55 & 60 mpg abouts... Once again, I was expecting more. Is this average economy?

    The plug is WHITE... So I need a bigger main. What carb does this thing have & what's the jetting stock for reference?

    From what I've read, I understand that the biggest bang for the buck performance wise is getting those Dr pulley weights. I read another thread where somebody got 11 gram ones & says it made a huge difference. Anybody care to chime in on this?

    So here's my idear... Figure out what carb I got & order a couple bigger jets to get a nice light brown plug. While I've got the carb out, tighten up the throttle cable to make sure I'm getting WOT. Once I see what that does, I'll order the Dr pulleys & get a new belt (I figure the one in it is probably original & therefore needs replaced... Wait, this does have some sort of belt right? I'm just assuming here...) At that point, if I can cruise at a solid 55 - 60, I'll be happy.

    I'm not looking to go down the highway at 70, I've avoided them at all cost so far. Just being able to go down country black tops at 55 - 60 (keeping that speed up hills & into the wind is what I mean by 'solid') & not have cages crawling up my ass would be nice.

    Brainstorm with me! Idears? Comments? A swift kick in the ass? Anything? :freaky
    #1
  2. windburn

    windburn Long timer

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    I think your speed is reasonable. It have gotten yourself a fine scoot. Looks like you have a much better handle on mechanical then I. On my Helix 1986 the intake manifold cracked changing the mixture and blowing a head gasket. seems it is typical for the older machines. a replacement would have saved me so much cost and time as I ended up replacing the engine.
    It would be good to go to a site on the web and see what problems have popped up for others with elite 150's. Have fun with your new scoot. It is an antique.
    :clap
    #2
  3. notdave

    notdave gets bored easily

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    your speed is correct. i wouldnt expect to gain anymore speed out of a 150cc without increasing displacement.

    check your tires for dry rot and check your valve stems if they are the rubber ones.
    #3
  4. Bandit240

    Bandit240 Been here awhile

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    Nice Elite. You may end up putting that box back on soon as it is a great storage place. Also the mirror is helpful. 55mph sounds about right for the Elite 150. I weigh a little less than you do and mine does about 63(on the screen, GPS is about 59). That is with the carb way over jetted and a uni filter stuck right on the carb. You don't want to mess with it too much, they last damn near forever in stock form. Also, do much with the jets and air flow and loose the fuel milage. I get about 40mpg, not good at all. Check out the rollers and replace if needed, also might be a good time for a new belt. Don't buy a chinese carb for it off ebay, they are crap. Ive got one that i really had no other choice since i couldn't find the stock one(my fault for removing and letting it sit for a few years). Ive got 2 stockers off junk bikes now that im going to rework and use. Im going back to stock jetting and air filter.


    Please for the sake of a very pretty scooter, don't mess it up. Its hard to find them that nice anymore. The red colour is nice. To me they don't look right without that box since mine has always had one on it.
    #4
  5. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    you could fit an elite 250 engine in it but 55 is about tops for for elite 250. If you go over to yahoo groups there is one that deals with 125 and 150. Nice find worth about 1300.00 to the right person. Stock air cleaner is something that can be changed out. You could cut your own wind screen out of Lexicon plastic.
    #5
  6. Black Sheep Radical

    Black Sheep Radical Fusionista

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    Do you have a link please? I've got a CH125 with no windscreen and they're like hen's teeth here in the UK. I did Google but didn't find anything related.
    #6
  7. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    My '87 Elite 150 will do a little over 60 mph indicated, give or take a mile or two per hour, depending on wind speed/direction. I weight around 230-ish geared up. My nephew swears he gets a couple of mph faster driving it, but then he only weighs 160.

    I went with the Dr. Pulley sliders, and they definitely improved acceleration. I forget the weight I used, but it seems to me they were only about a gram lighter than stock each. I believe they were 11 grams. Expect a little rattling noise out of them.

    You mentioned in an earlier post that your Elite had trouble idling when cold. Clean your carb thoroughly. Change your final drive oil. Replace your plug and your air filter. Wouldn't hurt to change your intake rubber. They can crack, and that can lead to a very lean-running condition, as Windburn mentioned. Mine was cracked at 2800 miles. If your belt's worn, it'll affect top speed, but I don't believe they need to be replaced until at least 8-10k miles.
    #7
  8. kawasakifreak77

    kawasakifreak77 the Asphalt Cowboy

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    This cracked manifold has me thinking...

    Maybe this is why my plug is WHITE as all get out??

    & also why she wants to die cold too...

    I'll have to check this out when I get back to town.

    HandKphil, The '87 was a different body correct? Were there any engine / drive train differences between mine & yours? I'm just wondering if there was something changed that would make your real world performance better than mine. If not, using your info for a reference (to compare) I think would be a good baseline to go from.

    On the drive train (I don't know what else to call it) I just need the sliders & belt (my Elite has 8600+ miles, figure getting a new belt in there can't hurt) correct?

    I'll get those on the way.

    I'll check out the manifold intake rubber thingy for cracks. If there are some, I'll replace it & see if the plug browns up. If not, then I'll jet up. Of course I'll go through the carb regardless & check out this enricher thing I hear screws up & tighten the throttle cable while I'm at it to see if her cold running improves.

    Off to order parts!

    Thanks everybody for helping out the slow kid!
    #8
  9. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    I don't believe there's any significant engine/CVT differences between the '85's and the '87's. I think your performance issues can be traced to a carb that's not quite clean. Many people report starting/idling/top speed issues when restoring these old Honda scooters, and I'd bet that eight times out of ten their problem is a dirty carb. I replaced an $80 bystarter when I first got into these scooters, thinking it was bad, when in fact my carb was just dirty.

    Your rollers may very well be worn. I've re-done a few Honda scooters now, and the rollers on two had major flat spots. One bike had 2800 miles on it, and the other had 6800. New rollers improved the performance of both, but I can't say their top speeds increased by more than a mile or two per hour.

    I think it's important to make sure your scooter's in optimum tune too. As I mentioned before, a good first step is to replace all filters and fluids, as well as your plug. Check all vacuum line connections for leaks. Check your carb-to-manifold connection for air leaks. If your tank's rusty, clean it meticulously, and/or install a fuel filter.

    You're really going to enjoy your scooter once you get your minor issues ironed out. I usually have 5-6 motorcycles and scooters in my garage at any one time, but the one that's the most fun to ride is my Elite 150.

    Good luck,
    HandKPhil
    #9
  10. kawasakifreak77

    kawasakifreak77 the Asphalt Cowboy

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    Thanks again man!

    So I got back into town today & started checking some stuff. I blew brake clean all over the manifold & whatnot & couldn't get any idle fluctuations more than normal. I checked like crazy for cracks & didn't see anything that remotely resembled one.

    So then I went to the carb.

    First off... Why does there need to be so many freakin' things connected to the blasted carb? Talk about over engineering!

    Anyways, inside was practically spotless. There was a TINY bit of sediment in the bowl, that was it. I blew all the passages out with B-12 & reassembled with a 102.5 main. I tightened the throttle cable up too. The carb was getting WOT with all that slack so my theory about a lack of top end from not reaching WOT by a loose throttle cable was busted.

    She does have some more torque around town with the bigger main but I don't think I gained much (if any) top end. I took her out on the highway & got 60 one way, 50 back... Stupid Kansas wind again! Still a great improvement around town between the bigger main & tightened throttle cable so I'm happy with that!

    So that pretty much takes care of the carb end. Other than maybe getting a new enricher dealy. If I continue to have a cold dying issue that is. After I fired her up to check for leaks, I went inside to wash my mits so I'm not sure if I fixed that problem since she was warmed up when I went for the shakedown run.

    So I'm still led to believe I need to go through the CVT. I'll swing by the local Kawasaki Honda store & order a couple exhaust gaskets (I figure I'm gonna either blow one or tinker with the exhaust anyways) & a new belt. He's gonna look at me real funny when I start asking about Honda parts... Especially Honda scooter parts! :rofl

    I'll price the enricher too, but I'm guessing he'll be way more than the $24 ones I've spotted on Ebay. If not, I'll order one of those too, of course only if she wants to die while she's still cold on the way there tomorrow.

    I went to Dr Pulley's site & found the sliders I believe I need but how do you order them?

    http://www.unionmaterial.com/vsScooterType3.htm

    The box in the top right there, next to Honda they got an 11.5 & 12.5, I'm thinking about the 11.5. I read a thread somewheres on here that the stockers are around 11.6 so I figure that should be close enough. I'm just not seeing any place to order them at... Am I slow?

    A couple other things. The coil on her is TINY!! Can I replace it with a big ass high output coil for some extra umph in the iggy department? It's just so small...

    Secondly, in the scooter thread, this guy posted a picture of a blue Elite looking scooter but has another name down the side.

    [​IMG]

    Does that say 'freeway 150'? The reason I ask is those wheels look 100x better than the steelies I got. If I get my scooter where I'm totally satisfied with the performance, I'd like to spruce her up a bit cosmetically & would definitely want to track down a set of these wheels. That's if they're bolt in of course, I'm assuming they are? Any other mag wheels I can swap into my standard Elite?

    BTW, that is an awesome looking scooter!

    Once again, thanks for all the help & reading my ramblings!
    #10
  11. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    Here's a source for the Dr. Pulley sliders. Mine did weight 11.67 grams each, and IIRC the Dr. Pulley replacements were 11.5 grams, but again my bike is an '87. Check the specs for your year (size, weight, etc) before ordering.
    Good luck.

    http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/sliding-roller-weights.html

    (You might also check a place called Martin Racing Performance)

    HandKPhil
    #11
  12. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    #12
  13. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    Here's a bunch of good info from a very knowledgeable Honda scooter Guru named Randy Pozzi:

    http://www.ch250.net/techtips/26.htm


    The conversion to Honda CB350/CL360 shocks really did wonders for the rear suspension on my '87 Elite 150.

    HandKphil
    #13
  14. ernest t bass

    ernest t bass Been here awhile

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  15. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    You want to see pics of the shocks? I don't really have any good quality photos, but here's a before picture:
    [​IMG]
    #15
  16. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    And here's an "after" picture, with the CL360 shocks installed. They're about a quarter inch longer than the stockers, and I bought them off of Ebay. They were from a low-mileage '73 CL360 that some guy was parting out. I think I paid $20 for the pair, and they work far better on the Elite than the stock Elite shocks did.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #16
  17. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

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    Like Randy Pozzi mentioned in his CH250 Tech Tip link (see previous post above), you have to use a file to reduce the thickness of the eye at the top of the CL360 (or CB350) shocks, to make it fit into the Elite's upper shock mounting brackets. You also have to do some creative rubber bushing swapping and modifying. I wrapped my upper rubber bushings in electrical tape, to make them fit the CL360 eyes. Only took a few minutes per shock. Sorry for the thread-jack. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming :1drink
    #17
  18. kawasakifreak77

    kawasakifreak77 the Asphalt Cowboy

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    Hey, no big D about the thread jacking! I appreciate all the info you're letting me absorb!

    Anyways, I went down to the Honda store & priced some parts. The enricher was like $70, the belt $90 & the exhaust gaskets $5 a pop.

    So I just ordered a couple exhaust gaskets, I figure I'll eventually blow it or end up needing a replacement as I see modding the stock muffler a strong possibility in the near future for my quest of 60 mph.

    I just ordered a new belt on Ebay for like $30 shipped & am looking at an enricher online for about the same money.

    I just don't want to jump on the enricher until I know it's why she's wanting to die when she's cold. Being new to this scooter business, should the engine always idle high? Like when she's warm, the engine idles just below where the CVT kicks in. When she's cold the engine just barely runs with the traditional single cylinder thump thump thump when I stop.

    Am I barking up the wrong tree on the whole wanting to die when the engine is cold thing? I might get over to my buddies garage & use his voltmeter to measure the resistance. I remember reading somwheres the resistance should be like 4 ohms new, anymore than 10 ohms & it's shot.

    I can say I'm beginning to like this single cylinder stuff. The idear struck me last night going through the carb that I'll never have to mess with syncing carbs, adjusting 8 or 16 valves, etc... As much as I LOVE my KZ650, sometimes valve shims & carb adjustments tries my patience... & that's putting it very lightly!

    I'm gonna order those 20X15 sliders too. In 12 grams I believe, just a hair over stock weight to insure I don't lose any top end & maybe gain just a bit. The acceleration is just fine for what I'm wanting. I figure if I end up doing any minor mods like a pod or opening up the muffler, it'll give me more acceleration so I'm not worried about getting lighter weights to get more acceleration.

    It's kinda funny, riding around with my Harley buddy the other day. After the usual gay scooter jokes were lightly poked around, we took off to wreak havoc on the local neighborhood, make jackasses of ourselves (I found out you can bunny hop these things like a bicycle! :wink: My wheelies still need work though!) & find something to eat. Sitting at a stoplight, as soon as it turns green I just gun this thing & all I can hear is my buddy back there gassing the hell outta his $4000 shovel trying to catch up... :rofl

    I'm up there laughing inside myself first time I did this. He rolls up beside me, screaming over his fish tale straights... "That little fucker gets it off the line!"

    I'm thinking about tires too. Only God knows how old mine might be & there are minor weather checks on 'em too. I'm a super duper tightass on a lot of things but rubber isn't one of them. Since she sucks on dirt, I'm thinking about like them tires similar to whats on those Zumas ( a badass looking scooter BTW!) Mine are 3.50/10's. I looked at Shinko 426's & they come in 120 & 130/90-10's. Are those comparable? I can't find any cross reference tables for something that small. Like my 650's stock tires way back when was a 3.25-19 & 4.00-18. Since those don't exist (commonly) anymore, people run a 110/90-19 & a 110 or 120/90-18 now days. Are the 120 or 130 series modern replacements for the 3.50 series?

    I'm not looking to use this thing as a dirtbike, just make riding down an alley without almost biffing it every time would be nice. The lot at work is dirt too & they just layed down a bunch of new sand. It's no fun on these little street tires. I want some beef under there!

    Tomorrow I'll probably ride down to check the mail. About a 70 mile round trip & I'll see what my plug looks like afterwards. Hopefully the bigger jet won't effect mileage too much...

    Okay, I'm done now.
    #18
  19. tcjames.yu

    tcjames.yu Adventurer

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    Hello, I am the blue Elite's owner, my scooter as most folks know her name is Elite150 deluxe, but in Taiwan we call her another name- Freeway150, Kymco made "Freeway150" in 1980s, Kymco owned Homda's stock about 15% at that time, so Freeway150 has a mixed-blood: Japan/Taiwan. my wheels is a replacement from Honda lead 125, it's not an original parts,thank your comment.:freaky :freaky
    [​IMG]
    #19
  20. kawasakifreak77

    kawasakifreak77 the Asphalt Cowboy

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    Washed & waxed the Elite today. I hit the seat with some amorall & polished the screen. Once she was looking so good. I had to add my last P! sticker...

    [​IMG]

    The ride down to check the mail went well, I could carry 52~53 into a strong head wind. I'm thinking the bigger main helped out some! It's 'junk week' down in my hometown & I tooled around town seeing if I could find anything neat, usable or otherwise needed by the curb. There wasn't anything even remotely decent laying around, guess it just goes to show how bad the economy is here now... When I was a kid you could pick up all kinds of stuff! Furniture, appliances, lawn care shit, etc. Most of it worked too, people just tossed it 'cause they got something newer to replace it. Guess they aren't spending so much now days...

    Anyways, on the way back, with the wind I had the speedo pegged on 65 for miles & could carry 55 at about 2/3 throttle! Of course I can't always ride with the wind so I'm hoping when I go through the CVT, I'll get just a bit more.

    On this final drive... I figure I might as well go through it while I'm inside the CVT. What weight fluid do I need & how much? The owners manual ain't got jack on that subject. Would synthetic be kosher?

    My last two tanks have been in the 63~64 MPG area. That's mostly riding WFO all the time. I have noticed that riding around town only using 1/3~2/3 throttle she seems to use a lot less gas. I just haven't rode an entire tank around town to compare it.
    #20