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Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Andrew2, Nov 15, 2008.
Yes, check the toe in to make sure there is some. Try and run as little as possible and think 'lean out' to get the thing tracking straight. To get a softly sprung, hig mounted , wide rig with a large amount of wind resistance to handle well at speed can be a big challenge especially with no means to adjust the tilt easily. Antswaybars make a huge difference in handling for these types of rigs on all surfaces except the really rough stuff where it is best to unhook them.
We will not build a high, long travel suspension, softly sprung dual sport type rig that is destined to see time on regular roads or pavement without the addition of a swaybar. I am not a fan of the tendancy of them wallowing all around in corners and turns away from the sidecar can be downright dangerous at speed.
thanks for the great advice.I suspected I would have a certain amount of body roll with the high mounted sidecar and long travel on the bike hence my earlier thread-
The rear of the bike is extremely soft now with the addition of the chair so before I play around too much with the toe in and leanout I'll get the rear stiffened up.I can see how a lower stiffly sprung bike can be a better handler but unfortunately I needed good ground clearance for some of the places I intend to to ride the bike.
Could you explain how lean out affects the bikes handling please.I always thought i was to counteract the camber in the road.If there is no leanout does the camber in the road make the outfit steer to the left (sidecar side of the road-right for you guys).I must say that I did notice that when there was zero camber in the road or negative camber that my outfit did steer better in a straight line
Nice work Andrew. by 2010 you'll be an old master!
I didn't see the wet bar anywhere, though ...
Looks Brilliant Andrew. Really nice job.
>>Could you explain how lean out affects the bikes handling please.I always thought i was to counteract the camber in the road.If there is no leanout does the camber in the road make the outfit steer to the left (sidecar side of the road-right for you guys).I must say that I did notice that when there was zero camber in the road or negative camber that my outfit did steer better in a straight line<<
The rig will tend to go in the direction the bike is leaning. If the bike leanes more left it will tend to go more left or less right. This , to me , is about the simpliest way of saying it: Lean left go left or lean right go right.
Many things will make a rig want to pull to the sidecar side in addition to road camber.
Wind resistance is a biggie which I think RichardNL mentioned. If the road camber is not changing and spped is increased more drag will created by the sidecar. fOOD FOR THOUGHT: Large windscreens on the sidecar make a huge difference. Wedge shaped bodies look cool but can create unwanted downforce in some cases. Flat windscreens may be worse than those that are rounded in the front (watsonian palma for instance). Low ground learance can be detrimental at speed if a lot of turbulance is created under the sidecar. Distance between sidecar and bike can be a factor. One guy, a long time sidecarist, actually got better milage and better tracking by moving the sidecar out only a couple more inches from the bike. All kinds of evil wind patterns take pplace between any sidecar and bike.
As far as handling goes when lean out is increased it can make th erig more tipsly in turns away from the sidecar. This must be relaized before getting into a turn too hard or the pucker factor may be higher than wanted.
Some type of on board tilt adjustor is a great idea so easy adjustments to tracking can be made to compensate for road camber, loading in sidecar, uphill running and speed being run at. A swaybar also helps a ton.
Note that dialing in a softer sprung rig is much harder than one that has stiffer suspesnion on it. Everything is a compromise on any rig but the compromise on a dual spoort type rig with soft suspension. lomg travel and no anti swaybar is much larger.
Oh, forgot to say earlier, that is a way cool looking rig you have Andrew and I am sure you will get it working well for you in time.
I appreciates yours and everyones elses comments and tips.It makes life so much easier with so many experienced guys on the forum.I'm really looking forward to getting this thing set up to my liking and everyones help is fantastic.
You are more than welcome. Face it we are all in this crazy sidecar thing together. It is good to see so many here who are willing to learn to set up their rigs themselves. Yes, we set up a lot of sidecar rigs but those who are willing to get a handle on what adjustments does what will almost always be able to tweak any initial setup into a better one. Those who are unwilling to do anything like that are actually losing out in many cases. Every rig is a little different and every rider has a little different riding style not to mention may be riding on quite different road conditions etc. Learning the basics no matter who initially setup the rig is a huge plus for any sidecarist.
Just on the lean out thing - get hold of your kids bicycle, hold it by the seat on a nice flat surface. lean it a little to the right, you will notice that the front wheel also turns right, lean it to the left, and the wheel turns left. Same on your rig. Lean out to the right will counteract the tendency to turn left. Phil
How true,thanks Phil.
G'day Andrew. Haven't been here for a few weeks, so I missed the announcement! Good one.
Phil Duffy's R1150 at Strathmerton this year. I wonder what he'll build for next year?
I gave you the lot I took, despite the suss quality. Phil's is definitely a low clearance beast. Like about 10cm, maybe less! He used Smart Car wheels.
The A-arm spring/damper was replaced with a threaded rod. I'm not certain, but I think the A-arm was a replacement too.
My 10c - go the links. Proven under Aussie conditions. Not that we've got harder dirt roads or anything like that, just...ah...well stuffed if I know really.
Rear spring - Mine has a Group A Commodore spec spring over a Bilstein damper. Leigh originally made the top & bottom mounts out of alloy, then re-did them in steel. I'm never measured my static sag, nor the Triumphs.
Lean out - mine has noticeable lean out, such that it looks a bit odd. It is very noticeable how differently is tracks on the flatter roads east of the divide than on the high crown roads out here. Still, it works fine loaded or unloaded. I can ride it with one hand - as long as it's going straight.
And the trick - get off the bitumen & let the thing dance!!! (actually, may have to use that line in my signature line, eh!).
I'm STILL waiting for a new airfilter for the Tig.
Thanks for those photos Ray.Gives me something to ponder.
Nice setup. I to have a 05 GSA that i am going to make into a dirt hack. Once i get around to selling our gl1500 sidecar and trailer. I will have to keep checking out yours. Thank you for the photos and info.
I was going to get Highway Sidecars in SA to set the GSA up (They did the Goldwing ) But i do like your set up . Thanking you Ian.
the two things I would change on mine if I were to start again would be to have adjustment on the sidecar end of the mounting struts and a bigger sidecar wheel.If you need any info or more photos just send me a PM.
I think I have some pics of that as well, that's my old DJP chair.
Not a great pic but...
Thank you Andrew2. John Marshall ? Where or who is he please. I like his work. I have just put a set of wilbers with preload adjustment on the GSA I am looking at getting the Trail Reducer soon .Then I will be on the hunt for a sidecar. (with a large wheel).I know what you mean by needing adjustment on the sidecar end.The goldwing is a pain to adjust.
John Marshall lives in Maitlamd N.S.W.Pm me if you want his phone number.