My soon-to-be Roadster + Monza rig -- DIY?

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by TheOtherBart, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. There's no way that the bike can lean relative to the car with all four linkages attached. Or do you mean the lower mount needs to be rotated in order to make the adjustments I'm talking about?
    #41
  2. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

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    Yes, you will need to lengthen the upper mounts as you described, but the rear lower mount will not allow the bike to lean out unless you rotate it 90 degrees. The bolt that is vertical needs to be horizontal to allow the bike to "hinge" without binding.
    #42
  3. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    Got it, I'll rotate that lower mount and then work on lengthening the upper links. How many hands do y'all think I'll need if I do one link at a time (like adjust the rear upper, and then the front upper)? Will the rig stay standing with that top rear mount unhooked for adjustment?
    #43
  4. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

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    It will be easier with a helper as you will have to adjust both front & rear upper mounts. Doing one at a time will be tough.
    #44
  5. Gasket

    Gasket Wandering Samurai

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    It's interesting to see the comments about proper mounting requiring the bike to lean away from the car a bit. Mine was mounted straight with the car tire and the bike's tires in parallel. The only problem I've had is with improving the very mushy suspension of the DL650 Strom.

    I'm working with suspension expert Barrey Wressel at KFG Racing right now and will be going back this morning to have the rear spring rate increased. Barry has been very conscientious about getting it just right so that the bike does not sag when get on it and the front end dive and remains stable in turns. I noted a significant decrease in front end take off wobble with the new Ohlin rear. Next will be the front forks which I will remove and bring to him when I change my front tire. Understandably, he was not much interested in fooling with the DMC leading links. He'll install the 11.0kg/mm fork springs that I already purchased (although he said he'd have recommended 11.1kg/mm) and modify other of the front suspension components to ensure proper action.
    #45
  6. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    I don't have any personal experience, but the theory I've read makes sense. There's both friction drag and wind drag on the car, causing the rig to naturally want to pull that direction. The lean and toe-in are meant to counteract that so the rig will track straight.

    I'm hoping to get some time to tinker with this in the next couple of days, I'll keep everyone posted.
    #46
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  7. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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    while your dinkin' around with it get you one of these if you don't have it already

    [​IMG]
    #47
  8. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    I was planning on using a plumb bob, but that's a good idea too. What I really need is some free time to work on it.
    #48
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  9. Gasket

    Gasket Wandering Samurai

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    I'm going to submit a thread within the next couple of days on lessons learned from mounting a sidecar to my DL650. From starting as a neophyte several months ago to riding down the highway at 75 mph yesterday I've learned much about the dynamics of tuning and riding hack that I hope will be useful to forum members.
    #49
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  10. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    I rode the rig again this morning, and still had a blast. Stiffening up the suspension is definitely a priority, and once that's done I assume the chair alignment will need to be tweaked a little. But this weekend hopefully I'll get to mess with the lean in and see how that feels.

    I also just ordered a tire for the car and a wider set of handlebars from Reveille. I'm predicting that the bars will make a huge difference in rideability.
    #50
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  11. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    Alright, I fiddled with the alignment this afternoon. First thing was checking the toe-in so that I could know how my lean-in adjustments affected it. The actual toe number doesn't mean anything because I don't have any nice straight references, but I carefully marked where each of my two crooked pieces of wood were in relation to the bike and car tires so that I could get good repeatable measurements and compare before and after. Then I unbolted the top rear mount, turned it out two full turns, then loosened the collar on the front upper mount and pushed the bike away from the car until the clevis bolt on the upper rear lined back up with the mounting bracket. Put the bolt through the upper rear mount, tightened the clamp bolt on the upper front, and checked lean.

    At the point it was still right-of-vertical so I repeated the same procedure, this time only extending the upper rear clevis one full turn. That got the bike "close enough" to vertical, meaning I figured it was close enough to take a test ride and see if it felt like I was headed in the right direction. So then I check toe again, and find that my adjustments had added 5/8" of toe out.

    I knew that wasn't good, so then I loosened the clamp bolts on both the upper and lower front mounts and pulled the front of the car in towards the bike. It was easier to get the top mount slid in than the bottom, but I jacked with it a few times and managed to get the toe back to what it was before I started fooling with things. That actually put the front top mount pretty much back where it was when I started, so maybe I only have to adjust the top rear mount to dial in the lean?

    I tightened everything up and pushed back to the road for a test ride. About then I remembered the advice about checking the tire. So I pulled back up into the driveway, grabbed my tire gage, and found that the tire was really, really low. Okay, it was flat. So I pumped it up to 25 pounds and hit the road.

    Now I know I committed the cardinal sin of setting up a vehicle, I changed multiple variables at once. But I can say that there was a definite improvement. I still felt that I was applying a little constant pressure to keep from drifting right, but not as much as before. And where before it was a struggle to make a smooth left turn from a stop (because of having to pull so hard on the bar while feathering the clutch out) it was easier now. It still has a little heads hake, especially pulling away from a stop, but that's the same as before.

    I know that the setup isn't "right". For one thing the car isn't level from left to right, it's low on the left side. I started to try to fix that, but I couldn't quite wrap my brain around how to do it. But I feel like it's something I can live with for now, and I have enough other changes planned for the near future (the new car tire, new bars, stiffer front and rear springs) that I don't think it's worth the effort to get things "perfect" since some of those other changes might affect the setup.
    #51
  12. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    I put another 70 miles on the rig today taking my girls to lunch and had an interesting observation. With my very petite 11 year old on the passenger gear seat of the bike, it rode pretty much exactly like it did this weekend after the tweaks. But with my pretty-much-full-grown 13 year old behind me on the bike the handling was much more neutral (less residual pull towards the car).

    So here's my theory. I noticed when I was messing with the alignment that I had to be on the bike to measure lean-out, because it leaned out more (or more accurately, leaned in less) with me compressing the suspension. With my weight, I adjusted the bike so that it was mostly vertical (from a fairly significant lean-in). So with her weight and mine, I'm guessing that the bike went a degree or two "out" from vertical, which is what people said it should be, and that did the trick.

    My plan is to dial the top rear mount clevis out a couple more turns and see what happens. I'm feeling good that things seem to be moving in the right direction.
    #52
  13. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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    just my .02 again but I would get the suspension squared away before trying to dial it in perfectly.
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  14. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    Couldn't agree more, that's what I said before. But adjusting that upper rear mount is a 10 minute job, if it makes the rig ride better in the meantime while I'm gathering suspension bits then I don't see the harm.

    No email back from Racetech today, if I don't hear anything tomorrow I'll give them a call.
    #54
  15. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    I've got Racetech fork springs. couldn't be happier. If they had a lot of email this weekend, or a rally to attend, it might take a day or two. They're good peeps
    #55
  16. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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    yougotit :thumb
    #56
  17. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    With HD I've been always lucky inserting a piece of PVC tube to pre compress the front springs from 1 to 1 1/2 inches. Cheaper than new springs ... and one grade up in fork oil, same quantity.


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    #57
  18. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    I'm fairly handy mechanically, but I'm not really equipped to jack up the rig to pull the forks myself. Hypothetically, could a guy take off the handlebars to access the fork caps, pull the caps, suck out as much fluid as possible, replace with heavier fluid, add the spacer on top, and reassemble? I will do the suspension "right" sooner or later, but this sounds like a good cheap way to get through the last couple of months of this riding season.
    #58
  19. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    In my opinion this a one hour job max: put a jack under the engine in the front to raise the front of the bike 1/2 of an inch, empty the fork oil through the small bolts near the fork bottom; put some rags, thick, on the tank; take the handlebars off; lay it on the rags; take the fork caps off (there may be some springs pressure, do not let them fly off); let the rest of oil out (not on the discs or tire, a plate of cardboard will help deflect the oil from these); put the 2 small bolts back in, new washers if possible; add the requested amount of oil; check if there is a washer on top of the springs, if not put one; insert the spacers; put the caps by hand and tight them as far as you can BY HAND this is the only delicate operation as it is a very fine thread which only dream is to cross thread (do not ask how I know!!). Tight the caps and you are done! If you do not jack the bike it will collapsed and it will be uber difficult! Sucking out the oil, by the top, will not do it IMHO!!


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    #59
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  20. Mr Mark

    Mr Mark Adventurer

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    I have an old monza on a yamaha I did myself....i love it......I bought a trailer tire for it..$50... i set it up with three point hitch rods from Tractor supply...$80..... now its much more rugged and infinitely adjustable,,
    After I set it up initially, I took a couple measurement from car to bike for reference, then I monitered the car tire wear and handling, adjusted til I got it sweet.....took a few times because one adjustment affects all others but be patient...small adjustments....
    https://s25.postimg.org/gjyjjmsq7/IMG_0608.jpg
    #60