Need fuse block help with my R100S

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by mspa, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    I have a 1978 R80/7 with R100S components/engine from the same year. My ignition has two positions. Park (no headlight) and headlight. I recently pulled the fuse relocator that was on my top plate, mainly to make room for my cables to have room for proper routing. There were four wires on the relocator. After pulling those out, my headlight comes on in both positions. Everything else works properly, so I figure it has to be simple.

    I have no idea if my fuse block is stock to my bike, and neither Clymer's or Haynes shows this board. There is a wiring diagram in Clymer's but it doesn't reference the DIN codes. I found pics of a 1980 R100 RT/RS block that matches mine. I'm hoping that someone can help identify what is amiss.

    I mentioned this in another thread, and someone rightly questioned why there is a green wire in the red area at position 30. But I pulled it off and nothing changed. What I am really wondering is if it makes a difference which post you get in a coded area, as long as it's in the right area. I assume that since there are contacts on the back that cover the area, this would be correct?

    Mine.

    [​IMG]

    Board front.

    [​IMG]

    Board back.

    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. RecycledRS

    RecycledRS Along for the ride

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    Think the green wire doing on terminal 30 (red board terminal) maybe the problem. I think this should go to top fuse terminal (green board terminal un-fused side). It looks like those terminals are already used but I can not see with what wires (they are covered by a cable). Having the green on that terminal would power the light all the time when switch is on.
    #2
  3. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    If you are talking about 15U, as the un-fused side, those both are green wires.

    I'll look in there tomorrow and see where those go. I know at least one goes to the ignition.
    #3
  4. Boxer Metal

    Boxer Metal Mad Scientist

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    #30 is always red and always hot. Green or green/black are only hot with the ignition turned on.
    #4
  5. RecycledRS

    RecycledRS Along for the ride

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    Guess I must be colour blind (terminal 30 - with a green wire)
    #5
  6. Boxer Metal

    Boxer Metal Mad Scientist

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    Never in any German wiring, car or motorcycle.
    #6
  7. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    A Green wire on a Red (Terminal 30) tag is a no-no.

    Kicking around here somewhere I've got a list of which color codes are customarily used with what functions (Red is always-hot main bus, White is High Beam , Yellow is Low Beam, etc), but darned if I can find it. I'll keep looking.

    Here are the DIN designations I've used for years:

    Code:
    Ignition system
    1 coil, distributor, low voltage
    1a, 1b distributor with two separate circuits
    2 breaker points magneto ignition
    4 coil, distributor, high voltage
    4a, 4b distributor with two separate circuits, high voltage
    7 terminal on ballast resistor, to distributor
    15 battery+ from ignition switch
    15a from ballast resistor to coil and starter motor
    
    Starter
    50 starter control
    
    Battery
    15 battery+ through ignition switch
    30 from battery+ direct
    30a from 2nd battery and 12/24 V relay
    31 return to battery- or direct to ground
    31a return to battery- 12/24 V relay
    31b return to battery- or ground through switch
    31c return to battery- 12/24 V relay
    
    Turn indicators
    49 flasher unit in
    49a flasher unit out, indicator switch in
    49b out 2. flasher circuit
    49c out 3. flasher circuit
    C 1st flasher indicator light
    C2 2nd flasher indicator light
    C3 3rd flasher indicator light
    L indicator lights left
    R indicator lights right
    L54 lights out, left
    R54 lights out, right
    
    AC generator
    51 DC at rectifiers
    51e as 51, with choke coil
    59 AC out, rectifier in, light switch
    59a charge, rotor out
    64 generator control light
    
    Generator, voltage regulator
    61 charge control light
    B+ battery +
    B- battery -
    D+ dynamo +
    D- dynamo -
    DF dynamo field
    DF1 dynamo field 1
    DF2 dynamo field 2
    U, V, W AC three phase terminals
    
    Lights
    54 brake lights
    55 fog light
    56 spot light
    56a headlamp high beam and indicator light
    56b low beam
    56d signal flash
    57 parking lights
    57a parking lights
    57L parking lights left
    57R parking lights right
    58 licence plate lights, instrument panel
    58d panel light dimmer
    
    Relay
    85 relay coil -
    86 relay coil +
    Relay contacts
    87 common contact
    87a normally closed contact
    87b normally open contact
    88 common contact 2
    88a normally closed contact 2
    88b normally open contact 2
    
    #7
  8. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    Thanks guys. This looks like what I need. I have some time on Saturday to sort this out with the info you've given me!
    #8
  9. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    As if it isn't obvious, the PO modified the wiring. He set up the ignition switch so there would be power on the Parking Light position.

    When the remote fuse block was removed, it should have been a simple thing to remove the four wires, and install the fuses in their proper places. But there it got complicated - the lights wouldn't come on. And with wires landing in non-standard places, it wasn't possible to get it back to that configuration without understanding what was done (and why). We mucked around in there a little and managed to get the lights working again, but now they don't turn off when starting the engine.

    Here's what I would do: return the wiring to stock, and then modify from there.

    mspa - a data point that may have been missed - that circuit connection board is color coded to accept wires of those colors in those spots. It's properly wired when all of the correct color wires land in their matching color coded spaces. It can't get much easier than that!

    The problem is making it nice and neat, with all of the wires swirling around the outer edge of the bucket, leaving the center free for the headlight - and being able to see and check out the connection board.
    #9
  10. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    Would having the Dyna III ignition wired up have anything to do with how this got "messed up"?

    I get the idea that color coded wiring should make this super simple. However, there seem to be a couple of extra green wires. If memory serves me, I think one daisy-chains out of another connector on green wire. I am fairly certain that all the wiring on the left side (as you look at the board) is fine. I believe it's the green wire on red, in conjunction with possibly a few other wires on the right side of the block that are messed up.

    If I can't get it right, I'll consider finding a stock board. I am just guessing the OP put a new board in when he put the Dyna III in.
    #10
  11. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    Good show. Yeah, it would be agood plan to go back to stock on the wiring. Lord knows what, why, when or how the changes were made by the PO, but stock is a good starting point.

    I've made changes to my wiring over the years, but have been fairly good about documenting things. Early on, I kept record of the changes on xerox copies of the wiring schematic but the past decade have gone digital and have a series of scanned schematics with the changes noted. Hopefully the digital wiring changes will go along with the bike after I check out, else the next owner may go digital, too: :ken

    The "extra green wires" may be just that-- extra green wires that were included with the board because of later revisions or different markets.

    I like that.


    --Bill
    #11
  12. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    When you guys say "go back to stock wiring" are you saying to get a new fuse block and wires? Or just relocating what is already there?
    #12
  13. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    Aint nuthin wrong with your fuse block! (though it isn't really a fuse block, but more a connection board) It's stock and belongs there. Absolutely no need to replace it.

    Really.

    The problem is the configuration has been changed. Wires no longer end where they did originally and who knows what else? It's going to take a little time with a wiring diagram and checking to make sure everything's correct. And correct what isn't.
    #13
  14. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    Somehow I'm thinking I should be thinking about another trip to your place before the winter hits . . . but seriously, I'll take a look tomorrow. I agree with all of you that it should be the stock configuration.
    #14
  15. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    So I am trying to get this back to stock configuration. Spent most of my weekend . . . anyway, I have all wires where they are supposed to go with exception of double-checking the ignition and the Light Relay (Bosch 0 332 019 150) http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/relays_0332019150.asp in which case I have found conflicting info on which 87 tab is "b". Looking around online at diagrams of the same part, I've seen switched. Shouldn't be that difficult.

    The ignition is another matter. I have the diagram, but the ignition only has 58 on the far left, 30 in the middle between the two center tabs, 15 on the far right, and 56 is the diagonal, below the other tabs.

    I have a red wire coming in from the harness to ignition #30 (I've tried both center posts on ignition)

    Grey wire is double wire mounted at 58U on the board and going to 58 on ignition and 87 (tried both tabs).

    Green wire was on wrong. It comes out of harness to a double connector that should have been on 15U on the board, then going out to 50 on ignition (don't know which tab that is, but tried various tabs).

    I have a green wire going from 56 on ignition to 86 on light relay.

    Using these wires as in the diagram, and trying different combos with the unkowns on the schematic that aren't on ignition, and the fact that the light relay doesn't distinguish which 87 tab is "b" . . . I'm about to pull my hair out. I can't get the ignition to work in parking AND full position.
    #15
  16. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    So I have what I think is the stock wiring in place. As I've mentioned, there are some questions since the light relay and ignition switch are not clearly marked. I have looked over schematics the last two days and if the ignition and light relay is correct, there is some other issue.

    Full ignition position works as it should.

    [​IMG]

    Park position does not. I get the headlight and tail light, and night lights for speedo/tach. But no instrument lights and can't start bike. This position should have no head/tail light, instrument lights on and start bike. Night lights on speedo/tach should not be on.

    [​IMG]
    #16
  17. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    Ignition wiring:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Light relay wiring:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Circuit board:

    [​IMG]
    #17
  18. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    I'll call it "good" for now. Wirespokes informed me that I shouldn't be able to start the bike in PARK mode. Makes sense seeing that the key comes out.

    Does anyone know if the speedo/tach nightlight should be on in PARK mode?

    It seems that the only real issue I have now, aside from being anal, is to figure out why the parking light inside the headlight doesn't come on instead of the headlight.
    #18
  19. mspa

    mspa Been here awhile

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    I just found out my parking bulb (12v 4w) is not coming on. I have the fairing back on, so not going to take apart tonight. But can anyone tell me if the headlight will go on in the PARK position if the parking bulb is out? Or should there be no light at all?

    I may just open the light up tomorrow and pull the bulb, unless this is a bulb I should be able to find at the local auto store in which case, I should just go buy one first, just in case.
    #19
  20. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    It appears the gauges illumination comes on with the parking lights. It's not something I notice since I don't use the PARK position for anything. And I think it's silly to run gauge illumination during daytime running, but hey, that's where government regulation takes us.

    Your headlight relay isn't stock, though it may have the same configuration - only cross checking will tell.

    The headlight and parking light (in the headlight) are wired separately.

    The funny thing is that it's possible to have the ignition come on in the PARK position with just a change of one or two wires - I believe to the ignition switch. Some PO went to a bit of trouble to come up with this solution.
    #20