needle bearing in oil pan

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by tbounds, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. ritetwist

    ritetwist Been here awhile

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    This is all news to me.I only found out about the pin a couple of months ago.(Just after I replaced the camshaft on
    the r80) Should I have looked to it? What would be the indicators of a lost pin, other than in the oil pan? If the main
    brg. does move, loss of oil to heads ? Would there be any warning ? That could be a tough find if your top end started chattering 1000 km. from home.Preventative help ?.Tks.
    #21
  2. bgoodsoil

    bgoodsoil Dare to be Stupid

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    Like I said, check your oil filter to see if it's crushed. I started hearing a clattering noise on my left side and thought my valves were going. I swapped in new heads and still heard it. After I seriously lost power I pulled the cylinders and found that the left rod rattled on the crank. The right rod bearing was perfectly fine. The noise I heard from the left side was probably the piston slapping the edge of the head. A new bottom end cost me $300 and I swapped the cylinders/pistons/heads onto the new block without any problems. This'll take you some work, but I don't think it'll cost you a ton of money. Unless you pay somebody else to do it. Then it'll cost a fortune.
    #22
  3. ritetwist

    ritetwist Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the tip,especially the filter, I wouldn't have had a clue.
    Hope I never hear the noise,whatever it is, I know it won't be good.
    #23
  4. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

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    Copy and paste the img code here.
    #24
  5. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    Yep, [​IMG]" right here in the message.

    The image in Hdwrgrl's post was:

    http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz66/hardwaregrrl/9edeaa73.jpg

    all wrapped in [​IMG] tags.

    No warning. The pin goes, the main bearing shell shifts, you lose oil pressure to the other bearings. First sound is a bearing death-rattle, transitioning to a cha-ching during the repair.

    A PITA to check since it involves removing the front main bearing carrier, but the collateral damage is much less.
    #25
  6. Madman1

    Madman1 Adventurer

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    Parts end up in oil pan on a 95 airhead. I have a 95 RT that I thought was bulletproof!
    Hans
    #26
  7. tbounds

    tbounds Adventurer

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    Now it appears it is a main bearing race keeper on crankshaft correct? Does this repair require pulling engine from bike ,therefore rear wheel ,drive shaft,trans or can it be repaired from front while still mounted on bike? I live in south Ms , Vech has worked on a couple of slash 2's for me ,but last i talked to him he would not work on newer bikes.Any suggestion for a good wrench , i have used Heberts BMW in Baton Rouge for parts and newer BMW's in the past.I have min. mechanical skills ,bike lift, tools etc. I can do my own maintenance and the basics not sure about this , i hear about lots of things that can go wrong.
    The bike has 43,000 miles would you suggest any other work be done while this is being fixed?
    thanks to all of you in advance
    #27
  8. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer

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    The front bearing can be removed while the engine is in the frame. It's one of those fiddly repairs, so I prefer to pull the motor. I'd pull the cylinders and check the rod bearings before making a decision on pulling the motor.

    When the pin falls out, a huge internal oil leak is created, drastically reducing oil pressure.

    I haven't used the pin to locate the front main in years. I use a 5mm socket-head bolt, grinding it square where it meets the crankshaft and locking it with Loctite 272 (red threadlocker).
    #28
  9. tbounds

    tbounds Adventurer

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    this really sounds like it might be over my head . I have found it winds up costing more to fix my screw ups than it would to have it fixed right the first time by an experienced mechanic
    #29
  10. AliBaba

    AliBaba Been here awhile

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    There is no need to remove the engine.
    It might be possible to only remove the front of the engine but it would require a lot of luck and skill. IMHO the best would be to remove gearbox, cylinders and crank. You can then inspect all the vital parts.

    I also found this pin in my sump when my bike was pretty new. I throw it away and didn't get any problems the first 150kkm. :evil
    #30
  11. tbounds

    tbounds Adventurer

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    does that mean something happened after 150,000km? Or does it still run with no problems and you have 150k on bike now?
    #31
  12. Biebs

    Biebs BMW Airhead

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    What are the chances this has been in the oil pan since it left the factory?? First time oil pan was off??


    What does oil filter look like?? Are you having problems??
    #32
  13. tbounds

    tbounds Adventurer

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    I am having no problems and the oil filter was fine , i don't know if the oil pan has ever been off , the gasket was a bit brittle taking off making me think it has been on for a while .
    #33
  14. AliBaba

    AliBaba Been here awhile

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    Around 140kkm my oil-pressure started to drop slowly (there is a gauge on the bike). At 150kkm I checked the engine and found:
    -The crank was miscolored
    -The rods were miscolored (bearings were not to bad)

    I thought I had a lubrication-problem and found:
    -Cannister for oilfilter had moved
    -Play in front bearing, it was out of position
    -Worn house for oilpump

    So basically I had several lubrication-problems.

    The stupid thing is that one week after I bought the bike (new) the sump-gasket started to leak. I decided to change the gasket and found the pin in the sump. This was my first airhead and I had no idea where the pin should be so I tossed it away. Later I heard about problems with the pin but since my engine had been running great for a long time I thought my pin was for something else.
    If I had found a pin in my sump today I would have fixed it at once.:lol3
    #34
  15. tbounds

    tbounds Adventurer

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    ugh guess i will have to bite the bullet and find someone with more skills at this than me
    [​IMG]

    hey hardwaregrrl what you think the computer idoit finally figured it out i am sure there is an easier way ,but at least i got a picture . thanks again for your help
    #35
  16. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    True, that.

    But still a PITA to do-- but with the crank sprocket pulled your're about as close it to as you'll normally get. I know you can't see it with the bearing cap in place, but is there enough clearance inside to use a borescope through the left cylinder case opening? All you'd need is a quick peek to see if it's "still peened after all these years"...

    [QUOTE="]I haven't used the pin to locate the front main in years. I use a 5mm socket-head bolt, grinding it square...[/QUOTE]Ah, good. I've never seen/heard that done, but have considered it for years.
    #36
  17. Renner

    Renner rockin' the toaster

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    looking through the parts fiche,
    it appears BMW changed the pin after the /7 series. early pins = longer and tangential to the bearing, later = shorter and perpendicular.
    is this correct?

    airheads up to & including /7 (item 6)

    [​IMG]

    post /7 (item 5)

    [​IMG]

    looking for a sort of design timeline. any known failures before 1980?
    #37
  18. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer

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    The diagram has been drawn to make the parts easier to see. #2 is the locking pin. #5 is the pivot for the timing chain tensioner. The angle and location of the pin has not changed.

    I have seen the "found" pins only in late model bikes-from memory 1991 on. Coincidentally, that was just after the destruction of The Berlin Wall. I saw a lot of Q.C. problems about then. I asked a BMNA rep if they had East Germans working at BMW, and he quickly said "No". After a moment, I said, "Oh! There are no East Germans anymore, are there?". He simply pointed his finger at me and nodded.
    #38
  19. Renner

    Renner rockin' the toaster

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    thanks for the clarification and insight.

    cost of poor quality :cry
    #39
  20. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

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    Try changing the size under "share". It will be under the html code which is the last choice when you click on share. It may be your phone setting taking the tiny pictures. I'm sorry about your pin woes.

    I wonder if some sick German ever chucked that pin in the pan as a joke?!:ear

    #40