Neutralize ethanol-plastic effect?

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Chickenstrip, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. Cakeeater

    Cakeeater Long timer

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    Actually, it was a Dallas company. And late last year they let all their land purchasing agreements expire. The project appears dead. They were going to refine oil from Canada. It was announced in 2008, died in 2012...but the South Dakota state supreme court just ruled (apparently too late to have any effect) that the project could go forward. Usual tactics by opponents: tie 'em up in court.

    A majority of local residents voted to go forward with the project by the way.

    Cakeeater
    #61
  2. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    I'm chuckling too. You use BMW bikes as an analogy for gasoline supply and demand.:rofl

    Even though it's a poor analogy to use to compare to a product a generic as motor fuel let's follow that a bit. BMW is fully capable of building many more bikes than they do. Why don't they, after all by your reasoning they would make more money if they made more bikes even if the market demand wouldn't absorb that excess production unless BMW drastically lowered their selling price. But they'd gain market share you say. Yea, but they'd lose money and their shareholders would not amused.

    Your insistence that there is no big oil.:rofl
    #62
  3. Cakeeater

    Cakeeater Long timer

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    Oh, I know there's big oil out there. They lurk, everywhere. In fact, I bought a carburator that got me 150 mpg!! But those damn big oil guys came one night and stole it. Then they killed the inventor of it, and paid off every one else involved with it. Those bastards.

    They're so damn evil they got Bush and Cheney to do whatever they wanted, and now they got Obama and Biden to suck 'em off!

    I just wish we common people could kill all those Big Oil chumps. You know, get Little Oil to take over. Mom and pop boutique oil, something with a little handcrafted vibe, like Surly beer. Maybe a church group here and there could run a rig, and some volunteers could do some cracking on weekends. The farmers market people could transport it. Girl Scouts could sell it, door to door. That would be so cute!

    Cakeeater
    #63
  4. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    You may need a refresher for your meds........
    Just saying.
    #64
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Long timer

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    Unless it has dissolved mineral content, alcohol will not conduct electricity. When alcohol is distilled the mineral content of the water that was used to make the mash is left behind in the still. Alcohol that is blended with non-distilled water will conduct electricity due to the mineral content of the water. I wish people would quit spreading half-remembered "facts" (nothing personal intended). It takes about 10 minutes of research to refresh a fuzzy memory. It's utterly ridiculous that we live in an age where access to information is the easiest that it's ever been, yet as a society we are generally more ignorant than ever.
    #65
  6. k-moe

    k-moe Long timer

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    Nope. All 4 wheeled, road going vehicles, manufactured in the US have had to be capable of using E10, without any damage to the vehicle, since the mid '80's. I don't' think US powersports and motorcycle manufacturers were ever mandated to make the (very inexpensive) upgrades, but have in order to meet the reality of the US fuel market.

    Alcohol (either straight, or as a blend) has been part of the US fuel supply since the beginning of the automobile era. If you want straight gasoline, be prepared to give up high compression/ high power output engines. Straight gasoline has a horrible octane rating (detonation can start at compression ratios as low as 8:1 and will always occur at ratios above 9.9:1); every drop of gas you ever bought in your life has had one additive or another in it to raise the octane rating. Prior to 1920 it was alcohol, in the 20's it was sulfur, beginning in the 30's it was tetraethyl lead, in '78 alcohol started to be phased in again, in the early 90's MTBE was used.

    There are good reasons to not use food crops to make fuel, but of you want people to take your arguments seriously you can't be relying on opinions.
    #66
  7. crackerguy

    crackerguy Been here awhile

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    All this "big oil" talk and no one has mentioned "big ag" (who most definitely plays a huge role in getting ethanol in our tanks, and profits from it)

    Monsanto is in no way a paragon of corporate ethics, honestly I would rather give my money to Exxon Mobil if given a choice...

    Plus ethanol f s up my Aprilias tank (I am airing it out right now to hopefully reduce the swelling) and reduces the gas mileage in all of my vehicles.

    It pisses me off that it is being forced down our throats, but I have no choice where I live but to burn it.
    #67
  8. Skooter

    Skooter Razing Arizona

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    I don't give a rat's ass about scientific data. All I know is, it trashed the fuel system in my antique Chevy, turned the fuel pump and carb diaphragms to stone after sitting maybe a year, it has an EXTREMELY SHORT shelf life and there are millions of motorcycles, boats, tractors, lawn mowers, and automobiles owned by TAX PAYING citizens such as myself, and WTF happened to our right to own these things without running shit in the tank?????? This was never supposed to be a socialist society and the government has no right to tell me what to put in the antique truck I've owned for 31 years and you environmental tree huggers out there can go f*ck off because I'm sick and damned tired of being made the bad guy.

    FYI, if I didn't have to drive so far to get non-ethanol gas, maybe my antique wouldn't pollute so much. Geesh.
    #68
  9. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Now that you mention "big ag", some should go see where the base stocks for their synthetic oils come from.:wink: Found some interesting facts tracing down "rapeseed oils" production for xxx brand synthetic recently.:lol3

    Sure took more than a few minutes to dig that out.....!:eek1

    Just had to go do an Ohm test on my lab quality Ethanol, just to check for conductivity.:evil

    I should go check the test jar with various bits of fuel hose,o-rings, carb parts and diaphragms in "lab grade Ethanol". A few weeks since I looked....no damages last time after a couple months.Test still in progress.:wink:

    What I know for sure is that I can drink that "lab grade" Ethanol. Sure packs a punch....!:freaky:rofl
    #69
  10. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    Monsanto doesn't have anything to do with ethanol, Monsanto doesn't farm. They simply supply products that farmers use. Most ethanol plants were and many still are owned primarily by small farmer investors, much like a cooperative. Ethanol was a response to high petroleum prices and surplus corn production.

    BTW, I think Monsanto business practices suck too. One more thing, if a company can't use plastic formulations that are compatible with our fuels shouldn't you be pissed at that company? Almost everything with an engine uses a plastic fuel tank these days and most of them work fine with our fuels.
    #70
  11. Skooter

    Skooter Razing Arizona

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    And after I spent two hours scraping hard yellow residue out of the carb (Gumout wouldn't phase it), I was in the house that evening eating some corn chips and it hit me....THESE THINGS SMELL LIKE CARBURETOR!!!!!!!

    So if you think it doesn't harm older fuel systems, just stay in your little dream world with your "scientific data" and leave me the hell alone.
    #71
  12. Skooter

    Skooter Razing Arizona

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    Yeah, can I borrow your time machine so I can go back to 1952 and give Chevy a piece of my mind??????
    #72
  13. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    I had trouble with an 08 GSA stalling when it was pretty new. The dealer messed with it a several times, finally blamed ethanol and told me to try some non-ethanol gas. I located a station 50 miles from home that sells the stuff, ran the bike down as low as possible and filled up there several consecutive times. It didn't cure the stalling problems. That turned out to have been caused by the dealerships mechanic when he did the 6,000 mile service and fucked with a throttle body air screw that you don't fuck with...ever. They finally got that sorted out and it ran fine.

    What did surprise me was that my gas mileage didn't noticeably improve while running non ethanol fuel. The bike computer as well as figuring the actual mileage when refilling was about the same as I got normally.
    #73
  14. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    Ok, let's blow up the Ag economy and burn more fossil fuel so your 52 Chevy will be happy.
    #74
  15. Skooter

    Skooter Razing Arizona

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    Don't underestimate the size of the US collector vehicle market. Too bad it's not just my Chevy.

    Unlike the plate of brussel sprouts your mom made you eat, we really could send corn to feed the millions starving in Africa. Personally, I find it morally objectionable to burn corn as fuel when it could be feeding humans. But that's just me. :huh
    #75
  16. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    You're free to buy corn and give it away, but someone has to buy it. Farmers can't produce it for nothing you know.
    #76
  17. Cakeeater

    Cakeeater Long timer

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    And this is my point: If you are in the business of making or growing ethanol, it's a great thing that the govt. mandates its use.

    But if you are not in that business, it is a net loss. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only reason ethanol is in our fuel in the amount it is....is because of politics. If it were a superior product it wouldn't need mandates or tax incentives to exist, people would seek it out. But it's not, and they don't. In fact, just the opposite.


    Again, it basically boils down to Iowa politics: the caucuses in Iowa determine who the president will be. Every politician has to say I Love Ethanol to win Iowa, and with that...we have ethanol in our fuel.

    As to reducing our dependence on furrin' oil....there's more oil sitting under the US or just offshore...than you'd ever imagine. Most of it is off limits because of....politics.

    Cakeeater
    #77
  18. Skooter

    Skooter Razing Arizona

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    I'm already paying them billions in subsidies. But I'm irrelevant. I'm just a taxpayer.
    #78
  19. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    When the oil industry controls the distribution chain the science and economics of ethanol matter not. It could be the best thing since boner pills but unless they are forced to distribute it rather than the product that they themselves produced why the fuck would they?

    More oil than I can imagine? :rofl
    #79
  20. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    I didn't realize I was talking to such a wealthy individual. Pardon my insolence.
    #80