New 2012 Honda NC700X 700cc Parallel Twin!

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Two Plugs, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    Well, Suzuki's Glady's is very metro sexual and it's pretty much left the SV dead in the water.

    So that doesn't seem to be an issue these days.

    I also know many people that leave the Italian/German exotica at home (something to do with resale and lease terms) and ride the 250cc Kawasaki to work. So there is another market.

    And what is the point of wearing out the Fun bike to ride in Boring traffic each day anyway?

    Plenty of older people using scooters and liking it as well.

    And as far as scooters and adventure riding goes, I think it's time to man up folks..

    Real men aren't afraid of riding scooters.

    [​IMG]

    I still think it has its place. Funny thing is the best selling brand in Oz is Honda. So They must be doing something right.

    After all companies are there to make money.
  2. gkgeiger

    gkgeiger Every ride is an ADV

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    I'll tell you who might buy it, a guy like me whose 68 and has ridden over 50 years and has severe nerve damage in his clutch hand. I'm having more and more trouble with my fingers locking straight so I can't pull the clutch. I realize I'm an unusual candidate but I'm going to have a look at the dtc model.
  3. scooterspirit

    scooterspirit Ilovekitty

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    Twist and go is just a lot of fun, and it rules in the city. There is nothing magical about holding in the clutch at lights, no matter how easy the pull. Take a 300 mile jaunt, and you will have a lot less fatigue at the end of the day, no matter where you go.

    I like both, I like to wind it out and row the gears personally, but how many people have really tried the twist and go, who say it's no good for this MC? I have a Jazz, good car, the motor is the smoothest 4 I've had from Honda, especially at idle. I expect the DCT works great in the bike, always lots of pull and keeps the revs low. I would think the manual pretty forgiving as you can shift anytime because it doesn't do anything more to run it up to red line.
  4. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    mooter? neuter(neu-scooter)? :rofl

    the traditional definition of a scooter is a step through design with auto tranny and sealed transmission (not for life, but you're not dealing w/ chain stretch/wear/lube). they keep getting bigger but the same fundamentals features are there. this has neither of these.

    honda is blurring that line. i can see a certain percenatge of maxi-scooter owners like it, while a whole lot saying NFW to a chain. has honda ever said if they'll offer the 6sp in the integra scooter variation? that could be a light touring bike for some if they did, but might overlap w/ the NT700V. i'm thinking no as all the floor board stuff is where the shifter would be.

  5. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    I doubt the NC-Jazz engine connection is enough to even be note-worthy, but I will point out that the Jazz (Fit in the US) consistently tops all comparison tests with comparable sub-compacts and is widely thought to be the most sporty of the group with the best engine.

    - Mark
  6. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    i can see the dct going to more people with issues like yours plus the added abs is key when you're not as good with modulation. still wish honda added that 3rd model or 6sp and abs or just everyone has abs like what bmw does.
  7. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    i've driven a manual fit and you can spin that motor and it keeps pulling.
    not sure where the crossover is with this motor as it sounds like it just falls flat at the top and signs off earlier than you'd expect/want.
  8. Two Plugs

    Two Plugs Long timer

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    Can't figure out what is wrong with 'only' 50Php.

    My first Transalp had 55, my 2nd Transalp 48, and the last Transalp 600 (which I bought new in 1997) 48 Bhp. I really had lots of fun with that bike. That much, that I bought back a Transalp 600 again, 10 years after I left that bike.

    Torque it the thing which is important. The Transalp 52 degrees Vtwin had lots of it (comparing it with other 600 cc bikes). Battling on steap, tight, twisty mountainroads, even 100Bhp+ supersport bikes could not keep up.
  9. potski

    potski Wiley Wanderer

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  10. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    Wait, I am confused...since when torque, bhp and rpms became independent measures?

    I can't agree that Transalp have lots of torque low down. Worked on them (one in pieces in garage now), rode them, repaired them - never remember any impressive torque from those. Smooth - yes. And it is not simple 52 degree twin, please take a look at full picture - Transalp have different arrangements of crank pins than "classic" Vtwin.
    Torque - that's what we can look at in Varadero. 90 degrees common pin twin is well balanced towards producing flat/progressive torque curve and gradual bhp curve.
    I believe full picture of engine characteristics is important, not "torque" or "bhp" alone. I think best is to wait until someone puts NC on dyno bench to see how they tricked that motor. Because it does not have any impressive torque, it is WHERE this torque is that matters.

    I mean - nothing wrong with Transalp except it is 23 years old motor and usually industry supposed to move forward :wink:
    And contemporary requirements to motor, suspension and brakes are much higher simply because of situation on roads.
  11. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    Oops. There is dyno. To be honest after reviews I expected more on torque moving low down.
    Here it is - vs. Strom 650

    [​IMG]

    For reference

    Roughly, formula

    T = 5252 x HP
    rpm
  12. Ze_zaskar

    Ze_zaskar Been here awhile

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    They only way of motorcycles to start being considered real transportation alternatives to cars is if we start to see full size bikes with good fuel consumption and maintenance costs. These days any big cc bike is looked at more like a big boy's toys than anything else.

    My only vehicle is a XT1200Z. I ride 80km with it everyday, with any weather. The thing can do 100km/h in 4s or less, and reach 220km/h in no time with no side cases or wind. With some care I get a little under 5l/100km on my commute. It carries two people and a couple of bags of stuff.

    I have a friend that has a Seat Leon 1.6TDI. The car has almost the same power as my bike, does 0-100Km/h in 11,5s, can reach 190km/h and is currently using 3,9l/100km of cheap diesel. It carries 5 people and their stuff. Plus, one can make all kinds of fun stuff on the back seat.

    This is why the general public can't look at bikes with a true sense of utility. They simply make no sense for someone who's not a two wheels passionate.And what do we get with motorcycles being considered toys? More expensive insurance, less rights on the road, more expensive equipment, more taxes and manufacturers that in a few years will be making 2000cc 180hp "dual sports".

    If we had more low consumption big bikes we would have more common people looking at them as alternatives and embracing them. More bikes on the road and the banalizing their usage would be better for all of us.
    And all the good things of riding can be present in a moderate power, low consumption bike
  13. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    +1 Well said.

    People can still go and buy their 2020 model 300HP 22,000RPM titanium Alloy Supersports if they like, but I agree, we need some more everyday practical stuff out there.

    I wouldn't mind seeing some serious thought put into safety / wet weather gear that is easier to take on and off either.

    I know some countries require nothing, but the other side of the non acceptance problem is the death and injury problem and the inconvenience of some of the gear to get into and out of.
  14. TonyBKK

    TonyBKK Secret Soi Rider

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    I think what you're perhaps talking about is the Honda Cub? The most produced motorized vehicle on the planet.
    [​IMG]
    My point being, if you want cheap economical transportation, then a cheap economical scooter might be a logical choice?

    The NC700 is fuel efficient, but it sure isn't cheap...
  15. scooterspirit

    scooterspirit Ilovekitty

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    To marginalize this bike as some 125 scooter is just silly. You could compare it to BMW 600 scooter for whatever that costs.

    It seems to fit in with the Versys and Wee, but all three seem very different. I could see there may be some advantage for the honda producing torque at low revs off road but the Wee is the master of all trades.
  16. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    They're not, of course.

    What is desirable in an engine is that it have a broad spread of torque over a relatively wide range of engine speeds - whether this range of engine speeds are 2K-6K RPM or 4K-12K isn't terribly important as the 2nd bike would simply be geared twice as high making it behave exactly like the first.

    I've always wondered if riders would stop being hung up on specific RPMs if tachs were simply marked as percentages of redlines. If an engine is smooth at higher RPM, there is nothing inherently better about an engine that makes its power at lower RPM.

    What Honda has deliberately done with the NC is not to produce an engine with lots of low-RPM torque (its torque curve up to its redline is about the same as the 650 Strom which continues to make much more torque at higher RPM), but instead, simply limit the RPM of the engine in an effort to make it more fuel efficient and cheaper to make. Whether the small fuel savings and relatively low price of the bike are enough to offset the huge performance disadvantage compared to a higher-RPM motor remains to be seen.

    - Mark
  17. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    i like that percentage idea!
    yep, about nc motor curve - I did not dare to say what you said, but was under same imoression. They just cut rpms. E.g. that would allow lighter valve springs, less losses on driving valves, less fuel by running almost too lean mix...kinda car-like approach.
    Funnily enough recently Honda got sued by some woman in US for not achieving advertised fuel economy on Civic or some other model. E.g. there is customers for that kind of vehicles - economical...
  18. cug

    cug --

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    The interesting part is when you see how most US drivers drive their cars: it's binary, full acceleration (but 10 seconds too late) from a light, then hammer on the brakes for the next red light. They have no f****** clue how to drive economically, which is partly because they only ever learned on automatic transmissions and never had to learn to drive a car "properly".
  19. mrnoitall

    mrnoitall Banned

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    I pretty much disagree with everything you just said:D.

    You completely ignore the reasons why bikes/scooters are basic transportation for a good part of the world but not in America, Economics.

    Gas costs twice as much in many other countries. In addition, America is vast and sparsely populated compared to many of the densely populated areas where bikes take on the role as primary transportation due to over crowded cities and short commutes. Further more, bikes are cheaper in parts of the world when you don't have to import them. Add to that the fact that Americans are extremely wealthy (at least on paper) compared to the rest of the world and can afford cars and trucks. Add all of that together and you can see why it does'nt make as much sense to buy a bike as the main mode of transportation in America.

    These are some of the same reason why we don't see high speed trains in America. Basically people in other countries ride scooters and bikes and take trains because they need to. That's not the case in America. We ride them here because we like to.
  20. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    if you are not used to revving out a bike then the nc should be just fine.
    those who have been riding awhile and know what happens you you spin the motor way up know what is missing.

    like you said the wee motor has 2 personalities. a nice torquey usable motor for lower revs and then a huge rush at the top when you need it.
    sound like the nc provides all that nice torque when you need it but doesn't provide that top hit...that's one way to keep mpg high as high rpms burns alot of fuel. would be the same effect i guess if the wee motor just had a 6000 rpm rev limiter.