New air box

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by tahoeacr, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    Oh, pardon. Hopefully all the other thousands of members who don't know chime in with nope and an animated face too. Very helpful.
  2. Head2Wind

    Head2Wind MotorcycleMayhem

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    Sir Johnf3,

    I admit that my response to the question of if anyone had done multiple dyno runs, recorded this testing, performed real world testing both in a racing application (two 950 SE that ran the 2012 Mexican 1000 Rally) and street.... specifically "Has anyone put together a dyno run with these filters yet? Or finalized some jetting?
    You know, actual useful information.", was intended to be in jest, you know, like in a kidding or playful manner. Perhaps I came across more sarcastic than intended.

    I did not make any mention of this development effort by nor any product that may or may not be available from any vendors. I admit to being a owner of a business that does provide services and products for motorcycles. I am allowed by the rules of the forum, to post anywhere within this forum, provided that I, like you sir, follow the rules.

    My interest, within this thread and the OC is to hopefully participate in conversations related to motorcycles and the KTM LC8.

    I apologize if this interest offends you.

    Have a good one. :freaky

    :wink:
    Ken
  3. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    Doesn't offend me at all. If you feel your "nope" answer qualifies as participation, that's cool. Lots of vendors, including yourself, give great specific advice here and still run their businesses. So if your answer is that you want to participate in this thread, we would love to hear what you have found out, even if it is in general since you are going to market a jet kit. If it works better than what I have, I'll be the first to buy one.
  4. Head2Wind

    Head2Wind MotorcycleMayhem

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    ADVronski,

    Yes, I and two other KTM 950 owners have performed several dyno runs, gone through several iterations and changes to the initial settings and then ran the dyno again. The two bikes then were tested at race pace for the duration of 4 days during the MX1000, one of the riders completed the race 2nd overall, the other DNF'd with a broken clutch cover after a slow crash in some rocks (proof that a CF or billet cover would be a good addition!). Mike reported that he consumed slightly less fuel at pace than he did with the OEM airbox that had been jetted as follows: #45 pilot, #50 IAJ, mains: 165r/160f, OEM needles @#4, prefilter and sommer door mod w/ foam, Mikuni diaphragm fuel pump w/o regulation. Mike stated that the bike (CPR setup) felt very smooth, very easy to ride, no major hit and at first he was mildly complaining that the bike felt slow, however later discovered that this was not really the case. Dyno for Mike's bike were done rapidly the day before leaving for the race by a inexperienced operator and honestly I do not believe the "numbers" other than the AFR (no I am not "tuning for AFR"), which basically told us that we where not going to melt the engine down during the race.

    Aaron performed several runs and did the majority of the preliminary seat of pants testing then we backed it up with the dyno and AFR (no 5 gas unfortunately, but at least a WideBand O2), that confirmed what he was feeling in field testing.

    Both bikes are running 2-1 exhaust, however one is left exit, the other right, both with inserts in the mufflers. We found that there seemed to be a sensitivity to the exhaust inserts more so than in other induction setups, however I have not backed this up yet with my Adventure test mule.

    With the CPR filter, we found that we needed to pull the float height back as a result of running rather large mains (178-188 depending on which bike) to get idle and cruise corrected. Presently running a custom needle, #3 clip, however we are continuing to test the OEM needle to see if we can massage it into working correctly. Fuel pressure is1.5-2.5 psi. Air jets were bumped up a little on the Idle air cut valve assoc'd jet. Still working on this optimal settings for all three airjets.

    CPR has done dyno testing on a Superduke and so have others out there, I think that its 6-9 HP increase if I recall correctly. I believe that the SE and the SM will perform slightly better because of the colder intake charge opposed to the ADV because of the fuel cells that constrict air flow. I have a couple ideas that I am working on such as heat shielding and directed flow from in front of the radiator (high pressure zone), however the path is small and very busy with other things so getting a duct though the mess is going to be interesting....

    Cheers :freaky
    Ken
  5. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    Thanks for the info, Ken. I was concerned that since you sold your 950 Adv, you might put a project like this on the back burner. I should have known you would be up for such a challenge.
  6. Head2Wind

    Head2Wind MotorcycleMayhem

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    added content to the original post cuz I'm lazy
  7. Head2Wind

    Head2Wind MotorcycleMayhem

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    Right after I got my 690 I rounded up another 950 that needed some straightening attention in the subframes... Ive got it all pulled back into shape and have been riding it on my test track (my drive way) with a small aux fuel cell to mess with the last few things before I hang the left tank on it and start taking it around the block/I-5 for a real world test. As soon as I get that done, the 950 is getting torn down to get some new and interesting bits bolted into it thanks to a few SDs that met early bike death...
  8. timbo45

    timbo45 Been here awhile

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    Does this airbox with the correct map make it run like it does at a lower elevation . Thats what im looking for
  9. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    I guess the 178-188 jets that Head2Wind references must be custom drilled? Just saying that because I have not been able to find any that big except in steps of five--175,180, 185.

    My bike runs good at 175/180, and I have also tried 170/175, and have those main jets in while I wait for the removeable foam covers to become available. The hot dry air this time of the year actually allows for leaner jetting too, which seems backward but its not.

    All my air jets are stock which is probably not optimal, but otherwise I stayed with the stock pilots and moved the needle clip to third from the top. Idle is good, but it has a bit (not bad but not perfect) of a flat spot at low rpms (3-4k) when you roll the throttle on hard. Above 4K it pulls clean and strong.
  10. StevenD

    StevenD Hmmmm, dirt!

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    any noticable torque / power improvements? :ear If so, at low/mid/high rmp's? I still wonder about the slides not operating in a vacuum anymore as there is nearly no resistance with these kit's. Do you still have responce when you whack the trothle open?
  11. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    Yes, it is a noticeable difference to me. Pulls harder mid to top, and throttle response is as good as stock if not better.
  12. adiablolex

    adiablolex Lost again

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    I posted my jetting trial in one of these threads, so I thought to give an update on how this holds up in the dust.
    We recently finished the Roaming Rally http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750329

    Most of the trails were extremely dusty and to tell you the truth I was a bit apprehensive on the filter's performance without the cover skin as I haven't ordered one yet. We also encountered a bit of rain and a couple (or six:D) water crossings 2-3' deep.
    I intentionally didnt even check it other than removing the saddle for a quick visual and did not notice ANY loss of performance as the days went by and the filter got filthier.

    Here's a pic of the dust on the bike, sorry about the shakie

    [​IMG]

    a couple of the filter bathed in the finest silty sand Ontario and Quebec have to offer

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    this thing loves bugs! :wink:

    [​IMG]

    the moment of truth:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    clean as a whistle, not a spec of anything in the protected area, carb throats sparkling clean :clap

    Very pleased so far with this setup, the bike feels like it has more torque, better mid and high, but I'm still messing around with my jetting as I have open pipes and would like to try the jetting with a bit of restriction.

    Thanks again Chris for an awesome product, I'll be ordering the filter skins soon :deal

    Diablo out

    :freaky
  13. K2m

    K2m ....58....

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    Bit late but Factory Pro make half steps
  14. Spark01

    Spark01 V-Twin

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    Finally finished :clap
    Result +10Hp :deal :D
    [​IMG]

    Fuel: 95 regular
    Height: 23m above sea level
    Outside temp between runs: 20-25 degree C
    Gearing: 17 tooth sprocket front & 42 tooth sprocket rear

    Stock run : 112Bhp - 100 Nm
    Mods:
    -orginal airfilter
    -Arka cans + akra mapping
    -32 mm db killers (ktm part nr: 76505099020)

    End run: 123Bhp - 106Nm
    Mods:
    -CPR filter
    -Akra cans
    -32mm Db-killers
    -2nd flies removed
    -RC8 Stacks<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
  15. MookieBlaylock

    MookieBlaylock Long timer

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    is that the slides struggling to open with low vacuum? that's what i like about the 950, its pretty good right off idle.
  16. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Infantry

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    Holy cow
  17. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    I don't think so. It still pulls good off idle. Just a tiny bit of a flat spot and only when you try to make it do it. Riding off road under normal throttle openings and operation, it is better than the old air box. Whack the throttle open at 4K in first on the street and you will flip if the tire hooks up.

    I don't think the vacuum signal is a factor at all. Maybe an expert like Head2Wind could chime in if this is really an issue or not.

    I have found that the low end jetting--air screws and pilots were not really affected too much by this air box. Needle either. These carbs are so forgiving of jetting that it is hard to tell without the right equipment like a wide band and a dyno. The exceptions are the main jets. It needs FAT main jets, no question.
  18. tahoeacr

    tahoeacr Long timer

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    Work has slowed down some so I will have some time to do a map. I took off the custom exhaust and put the stock one on with FMF mufflers. This won't be a bad ass smooth map as that would be proprietary but a good base map for you guys. I'll make sure your not too lean. Also will probably try the Akra map just to report back the A/F ratios.

    This will be for
    CPR filter
    RC8 velocity stacks
    aftermarket mufflers
    secondary butterflies active
  19. MotoTex

    MotoTex Miles of Smiles

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    Are you seeing any MPG difference with the new setup?
  20. rossguzzi

    rossguzzi 990 Adv.

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    Hi all,

    I have now had a bit of time on my 03 Adventure with the air kit I got off Two Moto Kiwis. Its a CPR Rottweiler. It came with needles and jets. 178 & 180 mains, 45 and 55 jets. Needles are on middle clip. They are from Adventure Machines.
    It runs real nice everywhere except if the wind is gusty at freeway speeds. Then I am getting the feeling of slight fuel starvation. Its only slight but I can feel it. If there is no wind or a tail wind its fine.

    Could this be anything to do with the carb breather hoses? Or possibly float bowl height. This I measured at 3.5mm
    Carbs are sync`d and TPS was set right. Breather hoses terminate under carbs in the V of the motor.

    It took did nearly 14 kpl doing a quick hills ride.
    Anyone like to share their views?

    Cheers.