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Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by tahoeacr, Feb 3, 2012.
let the jetting begin!!
Here is a little detail on the shield I made to go under the Rottweiler foam filter. The goal is to separate the air intakes from the heat created by the motor and water splashing up around the motor. Fortunately there is a frame member roughly parallel to the plane of the Rottweiler base plate. The fuel tanks surround this frame member on the outside. My idea is to make a metal shield that goes from the frame member under the baseplate and up the other side to the opposite frame member. The shield is long starting at the rats nest of wiring behind the head tube and going all the way back to frame cross member near the sub frame junction. The shield is held in place by the spring force of the rolled edges with help from duct tape.
Here is the area you get to work with. Note Rottweiler gasket rings installed on throttle body towers.
I made a form template with 10 wide aluminum flashing. I cut it with scissors and formed it by bending it with my fingers. There needs to be cut outs for the velocity stacks, the map sensor and the crank case breather hose. There is a part of the throttle body assembly on the right side of the rear velocity stack where the shield must be cut out in order to allow the Rottweiler base plate to mount.
I posted this photo of the sample template install.
Here is a side view with the right tank removed. The area below the shield is more open than with the air box so there should be more air flow and cooling.
Here is the sample form removed to use as a template.
I transferred the pattern of the sample template to some thicker aluminum sheet. I cut the form with a saber saw and metal snips. I made adjustments with a metal file and tried to remove all the sharp edges. I used metal pipe as a form to roll the edges. I folded metal under along front and back edges to give a clear upper surface. The bottom is covered with heat shield hiding the folded metal.
Top side of shield
Bottom side with heat shield attached
Shield in place with crankcase breather and map wire connector. I had to make the hole in the shield larger to accommodate the extra space required by the connector.
Duct Tape sealing shied to frame members, clear duct tape used over KTM stickers so you can see VIN.
Rottweiler baseplate mounted
Mount filter with quarter turn fasteners.
The area in front of the filter
To allow more air into the filter box area I put spacers under the glove box base. There are two bolts in front of the glove box and two near the back corners of the glove box. I didnt want to raise the rear of the glove box very much because it would affect the height of the seat mount. I used 4.5mm spacers in the front and 2mm spacers (washers) in the rear. Gasket adhesive will help keep the spacers from dropping into the engine. (why do I know this) This creates a gap all the way around the glove box mask.
Still waiting for our batch to show so that we can start designing and tuning......
good news is CPRfab just released another run so ours should be here next week
Now... time to go out into the shop and work on LC8s
Is it necessary or recommended to have a heat shied to accommodate the CPR Rotweiler? I just received my CPR and this is news to me.
^Nothing I have read from CPR or CJRacer (main person selling them) has stated the need for a heat shield/splash guard. Like many with these bikes, EdGear, just took a DIY approach to try and improve on an already great product CPR has given us. I can tell you I will not be building any sheild for my CPR (Thanks CPR and CJ ). But then again, my 990 see more pavement than trail.
I'm pretty impressed with the Rottweiler and what a foam air filter has to offer as an improvement over the stock air box. The stock air box looks like a small submarine and is very well protected.
Its my knee jerk reaction to want to protect the Rottweiler. I can't really say a shield is needed, heat and splash may not be a problem.
My reason for the shield is partly from reading this thread and what Tahoeacr discovered insulating the stock air box then putting similar shielding in place with all the air filters he tried. Threads from Cyborg, BillyD and others show the value of insulating the undersides of the 9xx fuels tanks. When you work a 9xx is gets hot under those tanks, hot enough to boil fuel. You don't want hot air going in the intakes.
For the street, removing the stock air box and putting on the Rottweiler allows for a lot more cooling, especially at speed. No problem.
For off road, look at any dirt bike, they have foam filters and air boxes to make it difficult for dust and water to get into the intakes. The tanks and fairing of the 9xx create an air box like enclosure that may work for most. The foam filter on the Rottweiler will keep the dust out and breath better longer. Filter skins will help those who truly spend all their time riding in the dust.
The shield seems like a simple thing to do, try to extend the Rottweiler base plate to the frame. The first one I made out of flashing took about 20 minutes. With that as a template the nicer looking one I posted took about 30 minutes.
If I really had my act together I would have already bought my Tune ECU cable and loaded a proper map so that I would have already tested the shield.
The shield seems like a reasonable thing to do, reassured me that there is heat and splash protection. I'll let you know how it goes. (after I load the proper map)
For naturally aspirated engines, few operational variables can have more impact on engine performance (i.e., power and torque) than altitude and intake air temperature.
Thanks to Boyle’s Law, increasing altitude or air temperature results in less air density. Less air density means less fuel going into the motor. Less fuel means less power.
As a general rule of thumb, an intake air temperature increase of 10 F has the same effect as going up 1,000 Feet in altitude.
As such, sucking hot air from between the tanks and above the engine means less power. Hot Rodders have known for decades that lowering intake air temperature results in “free” horsepower and, as Tahoeacr reported with his insulated airbox, an increase in torque as well.
I can see why the SD guys might not bother with any heat shielding on the Rotweiller set-up because their road speeds and resulting airflows are generally higher than one might expect to maintain off-pavement with an Adventure bike that is also more shrouded in its layout. In slower conditions, I would expect the space above the motor and between the tanks to become very hot on an Adventure bike.
If I were to install a Rotweiller on an Adventure, I would take great care to isolate the intake air as much as possible from engine heat and the relatively stagnant hot air between the tanks.
Doing so is simply good air flow and heat management.
Your comment has much meaning. I'm living in Denver, 5280 feet above sea and going up from there. I will be now be trying to reduce heat into the rotweiler....great information
Was able to convert my SE to the new CPR filter set up and the results were pretty amazing. I can change the filter in 3 minutes, which makes life easier After jetting the SE for the filter, I took it for a day long trail ride and put it through it's paces. The throttle response was amazing and it seemed to pull harder also. I was concerned that the filter hanging out in the open would be a problem in dusty conditions but the filter held up well all day. looking forward to more testing in Mexico in a few weeks.
Big Thanks to Ken from ADVmachines for the jetting help and of course big thanks to CJ for hooking a brother up!
What kind of jetting changes did you make??
So you can get the filter out of your super enduro without taking the fuel tank off ??
All I need to do is remove the tank bolts and lift the tank enough to get my hand on the Dzues in the front and the filter pops right out. Nothing needs to be disconnected, it's easy. Still working with Ken to do more jetting tweaks but so far the results have been good.
How soon do you think it'll be before you've determined the final jetting for this air filter and can supply a jetting kit?
Riding impressions on a (properly jetted) MotoHooligan airbox on the carbed bikes were that it had about +5hp over the H2W but much reduced throttle response. I can't see why this airbox would be any different...
Then, how come the vacuum slides opens very fast even without any air filter? I just watched them with the air filter removed.
Why can't I tell any difference whatsoever in the throttle response now (with a K&N oval) compared with the OEM?
Yes, I have totally rejetted the 43 mm dia OEM carbs to fit my new setup with the 990SDR motor and the K&N.
Anyway, thinking about FCR's but I dont like the 41 mm diameter when I already had to make 43/53 mm nozzles between the carbs and the huge intakes on the SDR. I just dont like the alternative choice,,,FI neither. Any suggestions apprieciated
maybe its because what you noticed is response with no load?
My experience was better throttle response... I have zero experience with the motohooligan set up, never even seen one, so not sure how to respond. I will say that my CPR filter is properly oiled, which might create some restriction for better response. I'll be on the Dyno next Tuesday, so I'll see what the numbers look like.
Point taken and dyno eagerly awaited.