New Honda 1200 V4 CrossTourer!!!

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Two Plugs, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    Small displacement bikes always good. However...
    Honda avoiding huge segment of newcomers who may learn proper riding skills from the start. Missing by not making any single even lightweight supermoto bike. They seem to avoid any thought of it.
    Every second beginner rider I know on this side of the pond (UK excluded - race reps country) dreaming about 690SM - like but can't afford it. Every one asking "is there some jap 250 motard?" and only answer to it is Yamaha WR overprised F model.
    Why is that? Sumo is HUGE in Europe and allows to learn and ride better than any other type of bike. To be fair - Kawasaki and Suzuki miss that too, but at least Suzuki HAD DRZ-SM. And almost every EU manufacturer make motards.
    If Honda would channel all this energy into simpler looking but even trickier to make bike properly aimed at wide segment!
    I do not think those 2 bikes is contribution to building generation of riders with riding skills. Don't kid yourself - they just want more sales. They give no damn about WHAT novice will learn from those bikes.
    IMHO smartest bike of this year is 125 cc KTM baby duke, not mamooths or "I will think for you" imitations of sportbikes. If only it'd come in 250cc...
  2. Delta88

    Delta88 Knurly Adventurer

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    Isn't the CRF230 Motard model available in Europe? That seems like it would be fine as a beginner's bike.
  3. *thomas*

    *thomas* *thomas*

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    I agree completely with the above statements about 125cc and 250cc bikes.

    But honestly, this is not what this topic is about.

    The fact that they do make big(ger) and (more) powerful bikes proves that they want to build such a bike... No one has 'ordered' them to do so. I am convinced that if they would abandon making these bikes and/or selling them in europe, aus and the US it would not make that much of a difference. I am not an economist, but it would mean development costs would go down, so would production costs... So, it really is their 'choice' to build those heavy, overpowered bikes almost no one asks for.

    The technology they use on a 125cc or 250cc bike has to be good. Most profit for them lies in asia. What people in that part of the world want is a good, reliable and maintance free/low bike. And, not to much plastic, it'll break anyways.

    I am sure this simple technology and minimalist thinking could be aplied easily on an adv bike. A 'let's go anywhere, anytime' bike.

    So less plastic, simplify the electronics and engine and just make it go everywhere at a decent price (which would be the normal thing for a decent, but simple machine). They've done it in the past, so it does not look so difficult to do to me...

    Sure, ABS, TCC and all other gizmos are nice, but make them all part of the accesory list.

    And sure honda is not the only one, but they ATM are the best at making useless bikes... Not only because, as I said many times before, they are to overcomplicated, over developed, overpowered etc etc, but also because honda is at least 10 years late. Others have taken over the market.
  4. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    Sorry about offtopic - RE: CRF230 motard...

    No it is not available :(
    Not in Germany. Not in Belgium. Not in France. Not in UK. Etc.
    Not at all.
    And even more. Not a SINGLE homologated light offroader here.
    Off road use strictly 450s and 250s.
    It is first time I ever hear about CRF230 motard, I swear.

    The only ever bikes you can buy new that would somehow fit in is WR125X, XT125X, XT660R (thou it is not light bike) and offroad road legal WR250R. Kawasaki has offroad road legal KLX250S. Suzuki DR-Z125SM (actually not really capable of anything). So...where is 250-400 cc motard?
  5. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    Good point. You should include the S10 crowd here too (The S10 is a poor man's copy of the GS). The Honda will embarrass the S10 crowd as well.
  6. mr moto

    mr moto Been here awhile

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    This is going to be a LONG thread ...Honda have indicated that if ...IF ... this bike goes into production , it will hit dealers floors in late 2012 ! And that,s here in Euroland , if it makes it to the states , it might be 2013 :evil
    Ride and enjoy what you have right now :clap:clap:clap
  7. SCQTT

    SCQTT Zwei Kolben

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    Sorry, great, great bike, but that is not the customer they are going after. That market is really small. They need to offer a bike that suggests that capability, but is actually a touring machine, with a little gravel road ability.

    Honda has to sell way more of these to justify their development than KTM sells of the 990.

    Not my cup of tea, but I think they built just what they needed to.


    Smart direction.
  8. Gustavo

    Gustavo Motociclista Errante

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    True, but actual tuning makes a much bigger difference in the real world riding experience than whether you have one less pound of unsprung weight or even increased bending resistance (which, IMHO, is far more significant than the weight saved on a street bike). See F800GS with "advanced" looking forks which actually have surprisingly poor performance and offer no ability to adjust it without completely disassembling them. I'll take a well setup conventional fork over that any day.


    Gustavo
  9. Johnnyboxer

    Johnnyboxer Long timer

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    +1
  10. hoebster

    hoebster Been here awhile

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    I have been a Honda fan for along time, until the Super Tenere which I ordered. The honda doesn't seem to be as off road worthy as the Yamaha or GS. I suspect the bike will be over 600lbs and over $15k, bags probably not included.
    The forks to me still look outdated and on the small side of 43 or 45 mm. I like how Yamaha has gone to USD forks more modern along with the wave rotors. The front fork angle looks like it sticks out too far like an F650GS or something. THis design of the CrossTourer just doesn't look completely "Adventure" capable.

    Come on may!!! Super Tenere yippie!!!

    Jeff
  11. Paulvt1

    Paulvt1 Long timer

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    Amen to that.

    This'll end up as bad as the F800 / Tiger 800 thread.
  12. aikidimi

    aikidimi Adventurer

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  13. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    Nice job with photoshop, I tried to do the same thing, but got frustrated - I've never learned how to use that program properly.

    One interesting aspect of this comparison is that the S10 has the screen/fairing set much further forward of the rider. Many S10 riders have commented on how far the distance is. I think this explains why a lot of folks are having issues with buffeting, although it appears solvable with aftermarket screens. But I bet "out of the box", this new Honda will have smoother air.

    - Mark
  14. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Just an honest question, are USD forks more suceptable to damage when used off-road, in sand and mud?

    Jim :brow
  15. CBBaron

    CBBaron Long timer

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    That seems surprising if the market is as you say. Here (US) the Japanese manufacturers each offer a motard and each quite different.
    CRF230M, KLX250SF, WR250X and DRZ-400SM. Maybe due to the fact that each offers basically the same bike in dual-sport trim. I imagine the dual sport market is a little larger in the US than western Europe.
    Though we get basically no motorcycles below 200cc

    Craig
  16. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    You would think so, but it must not be a huge issue as USD forks are pretty much universal on high-performance MX and enduro bikes. They're more down in the muck, OTOH, they're typically mounted behind some good guards whereas conventional forks often have exposed tubes above the fender where they get a lot of rock nicks. Regardless, given the off-road performance envelope of the bikes we're discussing here, I'd rate this as a non-issue.

    - Mark
  17. BMR

    BMR Long timer

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    You answered you own question Jim.
  18. R3B

    R3B Lazy Motorcyclist

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    Yep that could well be the case the buffeting is coming from below.
    Bit i'm verry happy with the far away headlights, it means there is ean enormous stearing lock freedom, to get the bike around nary treestumps and out of rutt's
  19. R3B

    R3B Lazy Motorcyclist

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    I thought the same a while back, until someone made a brilliant remark, dirt will get stuck on the forkseal if it's right side up, but drops to the earth on USD forks...
  20. Parigi

    Parigi Hoinar

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    Doesn't BMW hold a patent on the cross spoke design? The wheels look exactly like the GS ones.