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Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Two Plugs, Nov 2, 2010.
No doubt about that. V4s absolutely rock.
I spent a big chink of my life directly involved in either sales or manufacture of Audio products and software.
Plenty of people willing to plonk a wad of cash down on a well advertised over priced brand after they shopped around extensively and found the best price and deal etc.
Those that knew what they were talking about though never went near that brand.
Both customers were usually happy if you gave them a fair deal. But one lot never got value on the purchase because they never knew enough to know what they were missing because they had been convinced by advertising that it was the best.
Sometimes I could open peoples eyes a bit and get them to experience the real deal.
It is always the same.
Took me 6 years to figure out where I wanted to be. trial and error, good dealers and research.
I do appreciate a good dealer and do expect them to take home a reasonable income for the service, probably because I have been there as well.
In five years things may have changed and I hope there is something around at that stage that fits me as closely as the current steed.
There is a lot speculation as to Cross' capabilities or lack thereof. I haven't seen any real evidence for or against. Is there anyone that can shed some more light on this?
Granted the GS has its chops off road and the Cross is really yet to do so. But other than requiring more aftermarket armor than the GS is there anything really holding it back? Is the extra weight a huge problem? Theres only 20 odd kilos difference between the GS adventure and the Cross.
Check out this offroad review of the Honda versus the Tiger Explorer.
Nice! Thanks for that link... What's Honda USA waiting for? To always be the last to the party?
The weight and the shortish suspension travel are the obvious items. Perhaps add the aluminium alloy main frame - the GS, KTM, Super Tenere, Guzzi Stelvio and even the Multistrada use steel, which will flex a lot more under stress without work-hardening and developing cracks.
Rear suspension travel claim is only 145mm, or half an inch more than typical road tourers such as the BMW RT series. That means the springing has to be firmer than on, say, a GS with 200mm or a Super Ten with 190, which in turn means the bike won't ride as well over corrugations, all else equal. Front travel on the Honda is 165, about the same as the Multi 1200.
OTOH, what the Crosstourer gains from the shorter suspension is a lower C of G and easier footing. And it still has as much travel as motocross bikes used to have in the early days of long-travel rear ends (where six inches/150mm was understood to be plenty, and more somewhat suspect )
Plus, from all accounts Honda's rear linkage is exceptionally well thought out. And at the front, the raked-out 28mm steering head angle should work well on loose surfaces.
I've read that the motor is all but un-stallable, too, so it will chug through slow stuff.
All speculation, and of course what you want to hear is some feedback from owners. Me too.
Still, I am in no doubt that it would be excellent on gravel roads. The limitations would show up if it got really rough.
Two more vids that might help:
I've started this one from moto.it on tarmac but shortly before a brief gravel-road section begins. Rider certainly seems enthusiastic on the hard-pack.
And then there's this one in more slippery going, with knobbies fitted. Appears to to be more than capable:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bf4SozfqxoA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I was astounded that Honda USA opted to import the CB1100 but passed on the Crosstourer.
We had a rep from American Honda HQ at our MSTA national rally in June and they had the CB1100 on display, along with survey sheets asking if we thought they should bring it in. I had a long conversation with the rep and told him that I thought they should bring the Crosstourer in instead. It sounded like they didn't think they could bring it in at a competitive price, especially since it was based on the VFR1200 platform, which is way overpriced. Also, he had some incorrect info on how many Super Teneres had been sold, as an example of why they didn't think large adventure bikes were selling well. At my request, he made a call back to HQ to verify his numbers and found that the numbers he was quoting were only from the previous quarter, not the previous year, as he at first thought.
In any case, they brought the 1100
+1. My speculation matches your speculation.
The ALi frame would probably be fine except in a really bad erosion ditch or something when the suspension has no more to give and the motor wants to exit out the bottom of the bike. Stroms have the same Ali frame main frame and only occasional suffer a problem. When they do though it's snap not bend.
Ali will develop micro cracks over time, but that said that is usually a pretty long time.
But work within the suspension parameters and I think you have a fine machine for most people. Especially the Starbucks crowd. But they are riding an image not a bike. People who do real riding will be well served,
The XTourer seems to me to be a lot better "UJM" than the CB. It's definitely got more U. Honda USA seem a bit clueless. Either that or they do know their customers and people on here are not "normal".
Thanks for that, I appreciate your well thought out response. I've seen a couple of videos and it appears that no one has really tried to test the limits of the bike.
The weight seems to be a bit of a "gotcha" though. A couple of occasions I have not managed it well and come bloody close to dropping it, saved only by my meager physical strength.
I wonder what the impact of this would be through sand and watery mud and the like.
I have started getting jewelery for my bike. As I want to go camping on the New Year, I've started with pannier racks. I bought the Hepco-Becker as they will fit my existing panniers. I have also bought grip puppies and fenda-extenda
Next will be the centre stand and crash bars, finally when I'm getting close to taking on the rough stuff, it will be bash plate and air filter guard.
I'm also contempleting a set of Heidenau's for when I get serious.
Then onto the heavy stuff! That should add a solid 5-8Kgs to the bike! Now we are up around the 300 Kg mark wet without even getting on!
Not sure what to expect out of that!
I have done some initial riding on gravel and the low CG means excellent and firm handling on gravel. Quite surprising really. Additonally the Traction Control is somewhat of a bender avoider!
I will continue to post updates and monitor here for any further info.
Didn't realise you owned one. So I've explained to you why what works in practice should also work in theory.
I am looking forward to you telling us how she works in the sand.
My thoughts, for what they are worth, is that Honda has been very clever with this model in keeping the seat relatively low (or that is what I remember from my showroom "test-ride").
That means an ordinary rider who is no whiz on sand should be able to paddle along through the soft stuff and keep the bike upright. No way to cover big distances but makes it possible to get through short tough bits and back onto firmer going while keeping the rubber side down.
A bike such as the KTM Adventure R will be lighter and better and faster for people who can really ride sand, using power and high speed.
But for the rest of us, the shortness of the Honda possibly more than compensates for its greater weight. And we'd avoid desert journeys on either.
Expect to enjoy your reality check on this one.
I like a lot of what Honda has done with this model. Seems surprisingly well thought out. Can't believe they skipped the electronic cruise control tho.
hoping to sort out the touchy throttle although most are not experienceing this snatchy throttle like i, so anyway hoping it makes a difference for me
the bike is apart and in the shed waiting for the new bits to arrive: K&N and an FRK performance module
peace out bros
I wonder what it would take to upgrade the stock suspenders to something more suitable for a thrashing off-road? Moot point until (if) Honda USA ever pulls their head from their arse, but it's an interesting mental exercise.
I think "not normal" is the "normal" here , and indeed Honda USA are clueless gits. They got burned back in the late 80's when they imported the Transalp here (for a whopping 2 years!) and no one wanted that leviathan. But the market here has come full circle and people are realizing that specialized bikes are fine for those who have the garage space and can afford 3+ machines, but for the "1 bike family" a do-it-all steed makes a lot of sense. Now Honda USA is being muelish and refusing to import a bike that could be making them some $$$. Instead, they are importing a bike that will certainly sell (in their minds....if they sell 10 CBs in a year I'd be amazed) and leave the CT off the list ("those Americans didn't want a bike like that 20 years ago so certainly they don't want that now.....let's just ignore all the market data that says the adv-touring segment is the only one that's growing" ). I guess they figure they won't get fired if they don't make a lot of money, but they WILL get fired if they lose a bunch.....oh wait, they're gonna get canned for wasting the $$$ to homologate and import the CB! Imbeciles.....
Agreed, the throttle is "sprightly" to say the least! Looking to tone this down with some grip puppies.
They are in the post!
Hear, hear! I'm waiting and hoping that by the time I'm ready to buy they'll catch up with the new competition like Triumph and Aprilia who are all coming out with cruise. And switchable ABS would be nice.
Well... Honda has a reputation of not listening to its (potential) custommers, so I wouldn't put money on that one...
For the Q of replacing suspension vv costs...
I did the trick on the Varadero and the job on the CT doesn't look to much alien from the XL1000V:
- Fully adjustable rear shock unit + 2 progressive front fork springs incl oil / labour 1.100,- incl 21% VAT.
Prices elsewhere on the planet must be cheaper than where I live (The Netherlands - the far most expensive country in Europe...)
Just to give you an idea.
I was at my local Honda dealer today, and he indicated that Honda is suppose to release three new models in February. He hopes its the new Xtourer, but said most likely Honda will price it around $20K :eek1
Possibly talking about the three variants of the 2013 500's?
Didn't I already sit on a CB500 today at the new bike show?