New R1200GSA WC

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by roadtrip22, May 6, 2013.

  1. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    I know for a fact that the 04-12 R1200 series have antiknock sensors, and am almost positive the new Wetheads also have them.
  2. pistole

    pistole Long timer

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    they can detect knock nowadays without an anti-knock sensor. The electronics have developed such that they can calculate/detect knock from the sparkplug's voltage/resistance as its fired.

    pretty slick.

    .
  3. GS-A-Day

    GS-A-Day Adventurer

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  4. raider

    raider Big red dog

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    I've posted in Parallel Universe about this, but current thinking on engine technology is that in any case, knocking or detonation is nowhere near as damaging to engines as previously thought. You'd have to run it with continuous knocking for hours to see any damage, if you ever did - maybe you'd unseat the spark plugs.

    The pictures of molten rings, charred valves and all manner of hellfire are usually the result of pre-ignition, which you're not going to get just by using low-octane fuel.
  5. SkizzMan

    SkizzMan aka SkiddMark ;^)

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    +1

    Nothing "corrosive" in avgas. You can wash your hands in 100LL and it will evaporate off clean. Did so for years after every pre-flight check.

    Ghostrider said "goodbye" to his cat THEN started running 100LL recently. Added 9 mph to his top end and 6 mpg to his mileage ('07 GSA). Folks with high performance engines (boats, bikes, cars, etc.) have been topping off at GA airports for years with fuel cards like AeroShell.
  6. marchyman

    marchyman DR and GS

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    Did he also get rid of his O2 sensors? The lead in 100LL doesn't go well with O2 sensors. Especially as 100LL is currently about 1.2..2.0 grams of TEL per gallon. Leaded automotive gas used to be 0.1 grams TEL/gallon. :eek1
  7. SkizzMan

    SkizzMan aka SkiddMark ;^)

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    That's a good question. Didn't think to ask. Will follow up with him soon.
    I'll also check to see if the new Lycoming A/C engines have O2 sensors.
  8. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    In a general aviation piston engine? I'd guess we're about five decades from having such radical new technology. We're just now starting to get rid of magnetos.

    Back to using avgas in a bike, as someone has already pointed out, there is a awfully high level of lead in avgas (even 100LL which is "low lead" only in comparison with the ridiculous amount of lead in earlier avgas). Even if poisoning the cat or O2 sensor is not a concern, that's still a lot of lead being ingested in an engine that is radically different in size and operating characteristics from a GA piston engine. (And lead-fouling is still a big issue in GA with 50-hr plug cleanings usually required to get rid of the lead deposits.) And then there is the usual debate about whether higher octane does any good in an engine not designed for it. Not to mention the $6.50/gal (in the US) prices. I wouldn't use it except in a pinch.

    BTW, 100LL is actually about 96 octane if measured by the R+M/2 method used for US pump gas.

    - Mark
  9. SkizzMan

    SkizzMan aka SkiddMark ;^)

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    FADEC A/C engines have been out for many years using O2 sensors which have a compelling history of being done in by the lead in avgas.

    So saith Google. Amen.

    Good catch, marchyman.
  10. IB1

    IB1 Long timer

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    Piston engines are still used in general aviation. We've got some 2-seater piston engined planes used for training purposes. But everythiing else uses a turbine. Either turboprop or turbofan.

    And the price isn't relevant here. For our regular fuel we pay around $8 a gallon in Europe.

    But short conclusion. Don't use avgas in your bike, specially in a new GSA. You will ruin it.
  11. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    For piston engines and certified (not experimental)? Color me skeptical.

    - Mark
  12. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    Not sure how wide a net you are casting with "we've got", but piston engines are still heavily used in general aviation for all but the upper end of the market - you can still buy new piston singles and twins with six-seats or so and turbines don't start penetrating the market until you get into corporate aviation with $2M+ pricetags.

    - Mark
  13. IB1

    IB1 Long timer

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    In europe piston engines (in aircrafts) are normally only used for training or recreational purposes. I've worked some time on our mayor airport and we never had piston engines aircraft flying over. Since this is a heavily populated area lower cost/small distance transports are done via road, rail or water, so the low end air transport doesn't really exist here.
    Our smallest aircafts are twin engine, 8 passenger luxury business jets for VIP transport.
  14. NLS

    NLS My bike needs washing...

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    No WGS doesn't have.
  15. smr238

    smr238 Sam

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    Fadec is an acronym for full authority digital engine controll. It is used on newer turbine engines. I have never seen an o2 sensor on a turbine engine. There is no need. The more fuel you pour into a turbine the more power it produces. With out protection devices you could add fuel until the engine oversped or melted. I dont know if GA recips are using anythig that advanced or not.
  16. Flying Tivo

    Flying Tivo Been here awhile

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    Only the very few and new diesel engines use a FADEC.

    Felipe
  17. asphaltsurfer1

    asphaltsurfer1 CatManDoo

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    I'm going to avoid Avgas personally. Don't want to have that conversation with the dealer in event of warranty. I have 8 gallons at 43mpg on high oct and will only run low grade and corn when I have to. One reason for going GSA was being able to go further to be more selective on gas stop out West in places like NM.

    I did run Shell racing fuel in an old Sportster once. The iron engine was designed for unleaded and as it was slowly removed from our supply I lost significant power and it ran way too hot. The racing gas didn't help horsepower any :rofl but sure made it run a lot smoother. I tried it on my Mille R several years ago and scared me with white smoke and gray exhaust. I would have thought it would have run better with it.

    Staying with pure and simple highest octane gas when possible.
  18. Uly

    Uly Adventurer

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    I've noticed the same thing on mine. I just figured they all do that :D
  19. SkizzMan

    SkizzMan aka SkiddMark ;^)

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    If I'd known mentioning FADEC would take the thread to the topic of diesel :huh I would never have brought it up. My apologies. But, yes, there are FADEC piston A/C engines that burn avgas. I think the only relevant points raised so far relate to leaded fuels compromising the cat and O2 sensors.

    Moving on.......
  20. pistole

    pistole Long timer

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    you aeroplane people need to get a room man !!

    :D

    .