New starter torque limiter

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Sadlsor, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    I've been dealing with the noise since week 1 of riding the Beast home from Louisville. 2005.5, 1364 miles when it became mine in early July. It's been getting progressively worse, so Donnie at Graham KTM (Senatobia, MS) has sent me the new parts, to arrive today. Said it's a big box, like it includes the case. Good thing, too, because yesterday it clacked, slapped and whacked itself without ever starting the bike, to the point I ran the battery flat. Again (new battery 3 weeks ago.) It's like the starter gears are completely stripped.

    Having just replaced the stator (not starter!) a week ago, I know I can get that far. But in the numerous threads I've seen here, I haven't seen details on actually getting into the starter / freewheel and all the guts there. I know I'll drain the oil again, but seems I saw a mention to drain coolant as well? Doesn't seem that should be necessary.

    Is the whole procedure performed from the left generator case as before, or will I need to attack the starter from the right side as well? Does the starter need to be removed from the engine?

    I'd feel better having a couple of more clues than I do now. I know Pyndon and RidewestKTM could do this in their sleep.

    The workshop CD has been on backorder for over a month, so hopefully NC has mailed me his loaner. Feel like I'm flying blind here.

    TIA!! I'll be wrenching while y'all are riding.
    #1
  2. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    Yes it's all done under that cover. If you go to my discription of trial-side repar its the same, but allow the oil loss and keep it up right. Undo the vent hose competly. My new case came with an extra screw -no idea what for. The only thing I could see which would use it was a shaft retainer and it already had it. By the way no need to remove that screw on dissassembly - it is the one in the center of a boss in the middle of the old cover. If you went after the alternator stator you have done everything already except remove the limiter which is by fingers no tools.

    good luck
    #2
  3. Louge

    Louge silence of the limbs

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    The case mounting bolts are different lengths. You'll need a pair of snap ring pliers. Installation is straight forward.

    #3
  4. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    PM me and I send you the link to the Library where you will find the info you require.
    #4
  5. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    Thanks, cp - PM sent.

    And the new case and parts package did NOT arrive today. Damn!

    Looks like Monday afternoon is set aside for this job I had planned to do today. *sigh* Such is life...

    Thanks for the feedback!
    #5
  6. Roughidle

    Roughidle Super Star Destroyer....

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    I had this done at my first service, no noise, but now its leaking a bit of oil from the bottom of the generator cover.
    my dealer is gonna fix it, but if I was doing the repair I would keep a careful eye on the gasket when i put the cover back on.
    #6
  7. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

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    I give up....... What's a starter torque limiter?---- What kind of noise does it make?
    #7
  8. JavaJunkie

    JavaJunkie Mmmm, C8H10N4O2

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    It makes the most gawd-awful noise that makes you look like a putz on your big huge ORANGE motorcycle.
    #8
  9. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

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    When does this noise appear? .....at startup?
    #9
  10. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Anytime the starter button is pushed and the throttle is twisted. Gradually (or sooner), the noise will occur without the throttle twisted. You WILL know it when it happens.
    #10
  11. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    Hmmphhh.

    Does the same if not worse, on the big huge BLUE ones. Are the BLUE ones the noisiest? yuk, yuk, yuk. Got to the point where I would look around hoping no one was nearby when I had to start it.

    When does it happen? Used to happen every time I started the bike after it was warm. Then it happened even when I started it when the motor was cold. Now it happens even when it won't start.

    That's OK. Donnie Graham is taking care of me... my kit should be here Monday.

    And the oil leak under the bottom of the generator case? I tried to be careful when I re-used the original plastic gasket, but it took me longer to put it back together than it did to take it all apart? (Isn't that always the case?) The dowels kept falling out, or one of the bolts would miss the hole, or... finally got it all lined up, and torqued to spec and not 1 Nm over! and it held without leaking. I was worried about that. And now, after 2 take-off's, I'm sure I'll be stretching my luck if I don't have a dribble this time after buttoning it all back up.
    #11
  12. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

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    I have ab 07 990. FI. so i don't touch the throttle when starting.---Thanks
    #12
  13. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    The 990 isn't imnune either but some of the 950 don't show problems for a while. Usually you get lots of warning. It sounds like it's grinding rocks when it "functions". Also starting it in gear tends to aggravate. The problem is the device self-distructs everytime it functions -if it doesn't function it doesn't self-destruct. Only one bike I have heard of didn't give warning. When it does go the enging will not turn over.
    I will give you a washer that can be used to get you home that can be installed trail-side. Just let me know.
    #13
  14. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    Oh yeah - on that note: I never have had to use the throttle at all to start it (in my vast 6-week / 1200-mile ownership experience), and decided early on to always start in Neutral to avoid any clutch drag.

    It has always slipped since I got it home (interestingly, never did this on my 400-mile maiden voyage to my garage), and now as mentioned above simply will not spin the motor.

    Bottom line? It don't fix itself.

    BUTT!.... once this is fixed I feel like I'm home free. (Of course, I'll tuck away a waterpump rebuild kit and a spare fuel pump just in case!) :rofl
    #14
  15. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    #15
  16. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

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    I think that a lot of us would like to know about the "washer".
    #16
  17. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    Including moi.

    I'll have pix of it all.
    #17
  18. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    So you don't have to go back thru the thead and all of my lousy pictures, here is a summary: The limiter works and fails like this; one gear (driven) drives another on the same shaft thru a ramped and pocket "clutch". When the torque being transmitted exceeds a predetermined value the ramps ride out of pockets and compress a beleville spring (looks like a conical washer). When the ramps clear the tops of the opposing ramps they slip by making the awfull racket. Problem is the beleville must slip on the inside (little diameter) the outside (big diameter) and because of classical friction it slips on the little diameter and this is where its retaining ring is. The retaining ring bites the belville and cuts into it. This changes the compression and reduces the torque that it slips at. So it gets worse fast. And eventually cuts thru the belville and pops against the cover making a big bang (noted in the TSB) and works no further. I put together a washer that replaces the belville and does not let the the ramps ride up.
    back in a few

    Attached Files:

    #18
  19. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    I worked with two washer configurations and eventually configured one washer to work either of two ways. Washer needs a 16mm bore 5/8" will work but is really snug. Outside isn't important but I was using 7/8". Important though is the thickness .090 +/- .005 inches. This with a standarg 5/8" snap ring works (most of the time). If one takes a jewlers file and squares the bottom of the snap-ring groove (its a round wire ring and has a round bottom) so the new rectangular snap-ring will not ride up the rounded bottom it works 100%. The other way is use the same washer but with a chamfer on the inside diameter of one side. This way use the origional round wire snap-ring and it's forced into the groove (estimated 800lbs) and works 100%, but the clearances dimensions is really touchy too much metal cant get the ring in to little and the ramps clear. Picture is the first way.

    Attached Files:

    #19
  20. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

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    Hoooo-eey!
    Man what a difference!! I'll post the pictures in a while - right now I gotta go RIDE!
    It sounds Sooo-o-o-oo Sweet now. Unbelievable!
    (As I write this I recognize I'm excited ...because my ride acts like it's supposed to. Hmmmm....) :huh
    Thanks for all the help, y'all! :clap :freaky
    #20