new tire coming up Karoo 3

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by deguoren, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Adventure MotoX

    Adventure MotoX Been here awhile

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    Im running the K3 now on my F8. I have about 1000km on the tire and all I can say is truthfully how I feel. I am not biased to any brand, in fact I am still looking for that "tire" to stick with.

    So far I've had the K60's, 2 sets of TKC 80 and now the Karoo 3.

    The K3 comes close. I do like it... but I don't love it.

    I think the compound is a little harder than the TKC80 but not as hard as the K60. Durability seems to be right in the middle of the K60 and TKC80 as well. Also related to compound, I found the TKC to be a little more "grippy" maybe due to it being softer, but in turn wearing faster. The Karoo 3 is great on the road, I noticed a different right away from the TKC but I found the Karoo to be a little more slippery in the wet pavement and wet dirt... not so much accelerating forward but it tended to slip sideways more easily.
    All round it seems good, it's more of an all rounder IMO. If you want a dirt tire there are better options and the same if you want a better street tire but it handles both respectfully. The karoo grips better than the K60 for sure but will probably wear out faster. Some people will compromise, but some people here might want better performance over durability. Everyone is different, but in general these are my first 1000km thoughts.

    Hope this helps anyone here.
  2. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    There is a K3 thread over at the orange guys forum and they unfortunately report a very lame longevity.
  3. GeeK_InsiDe

    GeeK_InsiDe Moore Gas!!!

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    I don't think my rear K3 will make 5k km...
  4. gnurob

    gnurob Adventurer

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    Having read a number of reports it would seem the K3 wears at a very similar rate to most big block knobs such as the TCK80. Perhaps slightly better, but not significantly. This leaves it's improved road manners as the trade off for a slightly reduced performance off road. Overall, it may have a greater performance envelope because the on road is better by more than the off road is worse. In the case of the F800 GS, it may also mean the minimum speed for wobbles from 125 km/h to 160 km/h.

    It's still a tire I would like to test.
  5. Avner

    Avner Not noob anymore

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    The last few posts were dead on in my opinion. I have 2,300 miles on the K3 so far. I can already tell that the rear will last longer than my usual 3,000+ miles on the TKC80, but it is no Tourance for sure, so I'll probably get about 5,000 miles out of the K3. gnurob is spot on, and I think that based on my experience I'll keep the K3 on the front for road handling in tight turns and lack of high-speed wobbles, but go for the TKC80 in the back when the time comes. This way I might have best of both worlds when it comes to my own riding style and needs.
  6. gnurob

    gnurob Adventurer

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    Cool, K3 front/TCK80 rear is exactly what I'm thinking as well - unless a single trip pushes 4800 km (3000 miles).
  7. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    Just got back from my trip to Phillip Island, Australia, for the Moto GP. The Moto GP sucked. It was good to catch up with old friends and make new ones.

    So the stats:

    front and rear run at 38psi cold.

    in the last 8 days I've covered 2300kms

    400kms of dirt on clay ased roads with sandy or gravel surface

    half the dirt was done in pissing rain and sleet

    we had gale force winds, rain, sleet, hail, and fog

    [​IMG]

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    Pretty good tyre to ride with all around. A couple of funky moments of simultaneous under and oversteer on wet clay, and a similar moment when I hit a freshly painted centre line. Other wise uneventful.

    Total load of 230kg. Rider/ pillion/ gear.

    Highest speed....go straight to gaol. GPS average through mountains on tar and dirt in pissing rain was 89kph. I actually found it harder to push the tyres on dry dirt than wet. The front felt vague this morning, but when I hit the front brakes hard to test traction it hooked up really well.

    I adjusted my suspension (a strange concept for the average F800 rider) by going 6 clicks firmer on the slow speed compression adjustment on the forks, and firming the Ohlins by slowing the rebound, which has the effect of slowing the compression from the feel of it.

    Over all it rode much firmer than I usually have it, dived less into turns, didn't g-load mid turn as much. This caused a slow turn in, with the tyre profile quickening the turn in rate the further you lean. It is a little funky to get used to at first. Like it doesn't want to turn in, then turns in too quick, then is slow to turn out. You get used to it.

    Overall a nice run without going completely stupid. It handled pretty well with the full load. I put my high seat on for the trip, then regretted it every minute. Yep, it's more comfortable for about an hour. Then it's pure agony.

    I don't mind these tyres, but have doubts about their ability to wear well.
  8. RexBuck

    RexBuck Long timer

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    Thanks for the report Snowy and your usuall very complete description.

    How do they stack up in handling vs the TKC80 or any other tire you've used? If the wear rate turns out to not be that great, what tire do you think you will go to?
  9. husky123

    husky123 Long timer

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    I'd like to know too as I just ordered the TKC's. I debated on that tire vs. the new Karoo myself.
  10. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    In terms of handling on road, wet and dry, they feel very much like the original Pirelli Scorpion Trails. I didn't do any peg scraping turns, because fully loaded in the pissing rain that would be plain stupid

    On gravel dusted road with a hard base, they hook up better than the K60, less twitching and wandering off line.

    On red clay...much like any other tyre...they all skate. It did confound me by not skating when I thought they were sure to, and then skating for no reason I could think of.

    The painted lines were funny. I came out of one turn and had clear vision of all the turns and switchbacks for about the next 2 km, so I wandered across just over the centre lines to carry speed into the next turn. As I turned in I got a long slight understeer happening, with the back end just starting to drift. Wifey asked what the hell just happened and I said I had the impression that the centre lines were very new. I got about 4 km up the road and passed the crew painting the centre lines. Very new. As in dripping wet new. No signage to indicate they may be wet or doing work of any kind on the road. Just come around a blind corner and there's a truck driving down the middle of the road with an automated line marker machine hanging off the ass end.

    I think the Karoo 3 is a great concept. Works well all around. The compound is overly soft. The tread blocks seem to be wearing faster on the rear part of the knobs when viewed in their direction of rotation. You can also see that at extreme lean angles the very side knobs wear as if the load is being applied to them unevenly. This has me wondering what is going on with the tread blocks under load. There are some marks showing up along the base of the tread blocks that look very much like cracks forming.

    Being a 4 ply carcass, I'm wondering if the carcass is too stiff, especially at full load pressures, and the compound too soft, resulting in a lot of tread squirm and uneven wear.

    I'll just have to wait and see how they continue to wear, and what they are like for fire trail riding.

    I averaged 23.5km/l for the trip, most of the time in the heavily over policed state of Victoria was spent sitting on 105 on my speedo, which translates to 100kph (state limit) on my GPS. The rain was annoying, but not torrential. Some of the patchwork repairs with the shiny black goo they use caused the rear to twitch unexpectedly. Once deeper into the mountains on the old cattle smuggling routes I had a nice play into the naughty zone on the speedo. Yesterday I didn't see another vehicle of any kind for 120km. Which just happened to be the best road of the trip and the most fun 120km. Finally had blue sky, nice temps, and dry road.

    I find that I hold speed deeper into turns and brake more violently than I do with knobbies. My wife made the comment yesterday that it's like I've just zoned out and forgotten to brake. I think it equates to what I call the tyre selector switch in my brain. When I'm on knobbies I focus on being smooth all the time, quick...but smooooth. It's almost obsessive, because they will generally let go when you least expect it. You can load them up mid turn pretty well, but you just don't do anything sudden on them. The Karoo quickly gave me the confidence to go deeper and push a bit harder. Wifey says that occasionally this felt like I was going straight ahead instead of turning when approaching hairpins and nice tight reducing radius corners. Sudden hard braking produced no unexpected results.

    It was a fun ride for the most part. In the hills the F8 struggles with the full load, and you miss the grunt of the 1200. But, I'm pushing the same full load out weight of a 1200 and it's handling almost as well as it does solo with the suspension changes I've made. So it pleases me that it's working this well, but I think I'm getting bored with it. I'll continue to use it for fire trail work, camping and scrub bashing. But I think I see a 1200 in the near future for longer trips.

    If the Karoo don't deliver the mileage, then I think I'll fit an 18 inch rear and go back to Pirelli Rally. I liked the 17 inch Rally, but it just didn't last. At least the 18 inch version starts with double the knob depth. Or just use a Mitas E09/E07 rear like I used to.
  11. Paul23

    Paul23 n00b

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    Czech Republic
    Hi guys,
    I am thinking about the new K3 tires but a few people told me that they've experienced some issues about the grip on wet when the tire was about in a half of its life.. Does anyone of you have the same experience? I am not expecting that the tire will last longer than 10000km (6000 miles) but I am a little bit afraid of the grip on wet.. Thanx
  12. fnatic

    fnatic Been here awhile

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    Hey Paul

    My K3's are 1000km into their life, just my luck that they have had 300km or so in really wet conditions in that short period, mostly back country roads and highway riding. For the set I have, haven't had any "oh shit" moments with grip in the wet. Wash pushing on the speed limit around most corners, normally I back off in the wet a bit. Rode the same on the K3's as I would on the scorpions I got the bike with. But wouldn't fang around in the wet no matter what I had on anyway.
  13. gbtw

    gbtw Been here awhile

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    Compared to the Anakee's 2 and 3 i had on before this tire is definitely not as good in the wet. Had ass end step out multiple times under acceleration, while the anakee 2 was even good and steady in light snow.
  14. Avner

    Avner Not noob anymore

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    Well, I have about 2,500 miles on the K3, and last week I had two unpleasant moments on a rainy day on my way to work on small roads. The first moment was at a slow turn I took many times before in the rain, and suddenly my off-roads instincts kicked-in dropping my leg down on the pavement saving the bike from going down. The second one was about 10 minutes later at a light where the TC kicked in unexpectedly (I was gentle on the throttle) because the K3 was having a hard time to find traction. That put me in an unpleasant situation because the car next to me was already moving, and I was still in place. As I said - I traveled those roads many times before on my way to work year-round snow and all, and I never had this happen on the TKC-80. I'm very curious to hear other reports.

    On the flip-side. I just came back from a 400 mile weekend escape on DRY pavement where I pushed the K3 tires in corners harder than I ever dared to on the TKC-80, and I must say that the K3 is awesome on dry pavement - MUCH better than the TKC-80 - especially the front. That rainy day and my last short trip s one more step towards keeping the K3 on the front and getting a TKC-80 for the back when the time comes.
  15. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    Maybe a bit of oil on the road?

    I have had the pure luck of having it rain for most of the time I've had the K3's on the bike. They hold on surprisingly well, but I've had a few unexpected twitches and momentary loss of traction.

    The tar snakes that are the after effect of repairing cracks in the road surface seemed very slippery in light rain.
  16. TRBaron

    TRBaron Been here awhile

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    Have any of you guys using the K3 used the Sarhara 3 at all?

    any comparisons of those 2?

    I've got sahara 3s on my 600 transalp now and they are great most of the time but I was thinking of putting a K3 on the rear as the current sahara is nearing its end of tread life after about 9000km.

    cheers
  17. DirtSolace

    DirtSolace Been here awhile

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    KTM 690 sneaking into "parallel universe":

    First 2000 miles I rode Sahara 3's.... really liked them in twisties and asphalt OK in modest dirt: mostly intermediate (my ratio is 2/1--road to dirt).

    Changed to MT-21 Rear--WOW! Way better in Dirt especially climbs and +100 degree turns at speed. Bummer on Freeway over 65MPH

    Next added MT-21 front and rode 2000 miles (2/1 ratio). Kinda sad at loss of performance on asphalt but enjoyed a larger sweet spot in dirt, and way better "Float" from the front tire over piled rock terrain.

    Just recently added Karoo 3 Rear coupled with the 2/3 worn MT-21 front.

    After about 600 miles (still 2/1 ratio), I'm thinking I will hang with the Karoo 3 rear paired with an MT-21 Front. Just put a new one on the front.

    Karoo 3 stabilizes the bike significantly on asphalt (back to comfortable 80MPH bursts on freeway (I've got a Scot Dampener) and really powers out the turns in twisties. Just like a post above: the value for me is that it is much better on asphalt with only slight degradation in dirt--(against a set of MT-21's)

    Biases: I'm only riding intermediate dirt, and thus although I am getting more slide in dirt turns I'm enjoying it at my level and speed; No clay or mud yet (I'm expecting the tread to load up and not shed); No wet asphalt experience. I'd be surprised if I get more than 2500 miles out of the Karoo 3 rear. I think they perform partially because they are soft! (I am generally 32/30 road and 22/20 dirt--rear/frt).

    Bike weighs 320lbs wet + 35lbs of gear (tubes/tools/water/survival stuff) and me 220 including dirt garb and boots...
  18. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    Well....


    they slide good on asphalt.

    Waaaay sideways today. Nearly lost it...so very close.... Left a long rubber line through an intersection at a right turn, hit the rev limiter just as the rear was about to go.

    Total hooligan. Not the tyres, all me.

    Great fun.
  19. jengel451

    jengel451 1 Cool MotherF#$cker

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    Sweet, I love tires that will let you do that...that report right there has made me pull the trigger on a set.
  20. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    I was late for an appointment...double the speed limit late.

    I took a "back way" short cut, and there is a couple of intersections that don't quite line up, so you left/right flick as you cross the main road. I did this under heavy throttle in 1st. It was a full dirt bike slide. Onlookers looked horrified.

    My work there was done.