New tire need scuffing myth

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by TheBlurr, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    I see it is still being perpetuated, and it simply is not true


    First off, Knoche quickly dispatched the old wives' tale that the surface of the tire needs to be scuffed or roughed up to offer grip. "Maybe it's coming from the old days when people were spraying mold release on the tread when the molds were maybe not that precise," Knoche speculates, "and the machinery was not that precise. But nowadays molds are typically coated with Teflon or other surface treatments. The release you put in there (in the sidewall area only, not the tread) is for like baking a cake, you know, so that it fills all the little corners and today that is done more mechanically than by spraying. The sidewall is important because you have all the engraving in the sidewall [with tire size, inflation pressure and certifications] and that you want to look nicely on your tire, so that's why we still spray the mold release there."
    The next myth we see perpetuated nearly every time we watch the warm-up lap to a race. Riders begin weaving back and forth in apparent attempt to scuff the tread surface (which we've already discounted) and generate heat. The reality is that, according to every tire engineer that I've asked, there are far more effective ways of generating heat in a tire that are also much safer. Rather than weaving back and forth-which does little in the way of generating heat but does put you at risk asking for cornering grip from tires before they're up to temperature-you're far better off using strong acceleration and braking forces, and using them while upright, not leaned over! Acceleration and braking forces impart far more flex to the tire carcass, which is what generates the heat that then transfers to the tread compound as well (you often see Formula 1 cars weaving violently back and forth because automobile[​IMG] tires operate on a horizontal plane, so they have and use significant sidewall flex to generate heat).
    #1
  2. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

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    The mold release on the surface of them can make things interesting for the first few miles.
    #2
  3. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

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    not a face plant. Should be moved to here. Ask the mods nicely....and say thank you.
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  4. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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    I'm afraid I trust my friend/tyre supplying/mechanic more than I trust you, so, I'll just play it safe for a couple miles if you don't mind.
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  5. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    You trust your friend more than Lance Holst former professional AMA racer, Nicky Hayden/Jason Pridmore manager who also helped set up Kevin Swantz Riding school?

    As well as the Service Rep for Pirrelli?

    You really want a treat go to a race track sometime, you get to see lots of brand new shiny tires, some with a sticker on.

    FYI I hvae a very close friend whom I consider an Amazing Mechanic who perpetuated this myth just like your friend.
    #5
  6. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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  7. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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    However, to be fair, I might push it a bit if I had the skill of a professional racer, a works bike, racing compounds and USA weather. Tyre warmers and a nice race track would also boost my confidence a bit.
    #7
  8. damurph

    damurph Cold Adventurer

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    Having landed on my ass on a new set of rubber.... I believe it.
    I also believe in gravity... not just a good idea...it's the law.
    #8
  9. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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    Christ you've got me started now...... More to it than the release agent?

    Running tyres in


    It is important to understand that running tyres in doesnÂ’t just mean scrubbing-in the tyres surface. Scrubbing a tyres surface is only one of the reasons for running tyres in:

    • A tyre needs to be seated on the wheel.This is not fully achieved when fitting the tyre and it needs to be ridden on with caution to complete the process.

    • In order to achieve optimum performance, the various components of the tyre (belts,tread,strip etc) need to correctly bed in to one another. If not correctly run in, a tyre may not give the best possible performance.

    • When new, a tyre has a very smooth surface and in order to obtain optimum grip, the smooth surface needs to be scrubbed in. At first the bike should be ridden as upright as possible.Gradually, the angle of lean can be increased, always ensuring that a portion of the scrubbed-in tread remains in contact with the road until full lean angles are achieved. During this time the bike should be ridden cautiously.Hard or sudden acceleration and braking should be avoided because optimum traction levels will not be achieved until the running-in process is completed.
    Not all manufacturers use releasing agents during the manufacturing process, but for those that do ,the scrubbing-in process will need to take into account the fluid residue as well as the smooth surface.These agents can also contain anti ageing preservatives and this is why the manufacturers do not remove them before shipping to their customers.
    #9
  10. fallingoff

    fallingoff Banned

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    sorry but every tyre I buy is shiny
    shiny = slippery
    plus it feels slippery
    so I spend a couple
    of minutes scuffing
    them, just like
    gremlin bells
    makes me feel
    safer.

    the bells was a joke
    before ...

    merry tyre scrubbing

    thks boss/wife
    for correct spell
    of tyre
    #10
  11. soggysandwich

    soggysandwich Banned

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    To..The Blurr......
    you ride an old klr650....what the fuck do you know about how new sportbike tires feel after they are just mounted and balanced?
    NOTHING !

    the first few miles always feel like riding on marbles or ice,,especially if you ride on hilly/curving roads....not so much in pool table flat Florida.....

    I will continue to listen to my 60 yrs of riding experience [ have my own tire changing machine}...and not some douch bag trying to impress others with shit he read on the internet.

    of course at the acceleration and speed that a KLR 650 generates ,,,,, you will have no problem with them dirt tires:rofl

    Merry Christmas:lol3
    #11
  12. Louis Wambsganss

    Louis Wambsganss Been here awhile

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    I have a set of Metzeler Z8 Interacts (mfgd in 2012). When new they had a very noticeable heavy waxy/greasy film on the tread area. I don;t know if it's mold release agent, or what, but it was slippery on the road. I could not cut through it with Simple Green or Fast Orange. It just smeared. This makes me think it was a wax vs a grease. It clogged up sandpaper. The only way I found to remove it was to wear it off on the road, just being very careful as I leaned further over the first few times.

    [​IMG]

    This was not just scuffing of the tire's rubber surface. It was actually removing a heavy wax film that came on the tire from the factory.
    #12
  13. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    I know that a new Shinko Raven is slick. You should see how the water beads up on them. I almost took off my first set because they were so slick. I am talking hanging the rear out at a fairly slow speed.

    I buff with angle grinder, then ride gravel and then work up to full lean.

    You do what you want, some new tires are slick.

    Rod
    #13
  14. fallingoff

    fallingoff Banned

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    yeh I use a axe and plasma cutter on mine.
    lol

    i'll try the grinder next time.

    merry xmas
    #14
  15. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    I drag my new tires behind my truck on the way home from the shop,then use gradually rougher sandpaper on them,I make the kids sand em for hours. Gotta watch the little shits dont make holes in em.
    It cuts down on the life of the tire but I sleep better.
    #15
  16. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

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    New race tires have already been heat cycled and prepped for use. Street tires receive none of this prep work.
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  17. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    Ok lets say for the sake of argument the new tires need to be scrubbed in.

    If so they would need to be heated, once a tire is heated and gets really hot they can actually become greasy and that is when they do get dangerous. Nothing you will encounter on the street, or rather should. However it is something on the track that people need to be concerned about.

    Tires also get harder with every heat cycle, those tires which are five years old do not have near the traction of a nice shiny new tire ya'll are afraid of. Yet you would not hesitate to jump on said tire simply because "they are not new"
    Sanding your tire even if there was this mythical slickness on the tire would do absolutely nothing.

    Learn to ride, quit making excuses, once ya'll learn to trust your tires life becomes much, much better.
    Until then your own stiffness and fear will help cause an accident, which is what happens to people who then believe "THE TIRE WAS SLICK" no it was cold, you were stiff, your over reactions translated into the steering geometry making you fall down go boom.

    I brought this up at Lances advanced riding clinic, he shooed it off. I have no reason to believe otherwise and combined with his massive experience not only with himself, but with some of the top riders in America and the world, I will take his advice any day of the week.
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  18. MT Wallet

    MT Wallet Long timer

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    Ok Blurr, what got you started on this? If my tire looks and feels slick-I'm scuffing it in, it's mine, why do you care?. Some tire mfg.'s coat their tires, like one poster said, to protect the tire in shipping and while it sits on the shelf. I'm going to speculate that some racers who get their tires provided (hand picked) by a mfg. don't have to worry about protective coatings. They know they're going directly to the track not a dealers shelf. So sure, from their perspective and experience, their tires don't need scuffing in. If you want to jump on the throttle with a new tire-go for it. If you fall down and go boom no crying about it. I'm old. I didn't get that way by being reckless.
    #18
  19. baloneyskin daddy

    baloneyskin daddy bikaholic

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    Any time a solid is heated to liquid then allowed to cool and return to solid form there is a resulting crust or skin that forms on the surface. .
    #19
  20. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    I am putting this out there so people can start figuring out their own mistakes, rather than placing blame where it is not.
    Unless people can look critically at their own mistakes, they cannot improve as a rider.
    Your Attitude was predominant within many industries, one for example led to the creation of the FAA and studies to look into what was happening with plane crashes. From those studies we learned that most situations are caused by human error, the same goes for any other mechanical device the vast majority of the time.
    I did own a go cart track for a time, and every single time someone ate shit, it was the carts fault, bad tires, it would not steer, or any other bullshit excuse other than their poor skills.
    As for me
    I have been to a Suspension clinic & Advanced Rider clinic, I would like to take the both over again every couple of years money providing.

    Been riding for 37 years now and I KNOW that I will always continue to learn, I am not so arrogant as to assume otherwise, sad you are.

    Happy Solstice
    #20