New tire need scuffing myth

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by TheBlurr, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    NO argument from me, although I suspect they are less of a danger than tires which have been cycled quit often.
    #61
  2. Louis Wambsganss

    Louis Wambsganss Been here awhile

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    I had the same questions and am interested to hear the explanation.
    #62
  3. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    When I lever on a new set of knobs you can believe I take it easy on pavement until the sharp edges scrub in. Last year I put on a new XCMH for a mountain dual sport ride. The first time I hammered the gas out of a fast sweeper my 640 spun the rear tire.

    So I backed off a few percent. After catching up to my buddies I suggested some forest road flat tracking before any more playing Rossi in the twisties. After roosting up some dirt and gravel road the rear tire was fine. Just the way it is when you run knobs.
    #63
  4. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    Well, if you have road raced for 10 years and and you are from CT, then I know you and have seen you race a lot. If you were a front runner, I might have even scored you. At least if you did it since 1998. From the Green Flag, my riders hit turn one on sticker Dunlops every race once they turned Pro. One season we ran Pirelli's. Still hit T1 as hard as they could. So does every other top rider with either a tire contract or a tire budget to mount sticker tires every start. So how are those new tires slippery? It doesn't matter the track. Every guy up front hits turn one from the green flag as hard as he or she can; Loudon, NJMP, Summit Point, VIR, Daytona or wherever.

    People will complain that race tires are different then street tires. True; Street tires are softer and heat up much faster. But unlike race tires, they are not heated before use. Still, nobody is going to crash because the street tire isn't scuffed in. That stopped in the middle 90's.
    #64
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Long timer

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    "Running In Tires:
    When new motorcycle tires are fitted for the road, they should not be subjected to maximum power until a reasonable ‘running in’ distance has been covered. 100 dry miles (160km) is the recommended minimum (discount any wet miles covered)."

    The need to discount any wet miles ridden implies that the running in period is meant to wear the suface of the tire.

    From: http://www.avonmoto.com/tech/safety

    Page 178 of Contenental's Technical Manual for Motorcycle and Scooter Tires (2013):

    "Breaking-in
    New tires have a smooth surface after the
    production process, which gets abraded only
    through the moderate breaking-in of the tires.
    Sudden braking and acceleration, and hard
    cornering should be avoided until the breaking in
    process has been completed. Only after the
    surface of the tire is sufficiently abraded is the tire able to build up its maximum grip level. The
    tire’s size/information sticker should be removed
    before the first ride.
    Every tire needs a certain operating temperature
    to ensure its optimal grip performance. To ensure
    this, tires should be warmed up by riding at a
    moderate speed at the start of each ride."

    Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure manufaturers don't publish rumors when advising the users of their products.

    Racers charge hard on new tires because they are paid to be faster then the other guys. Being a second slower on any given lap can end up making a huge difference in how big the paycheck is.
    #65
  6. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    Yea all the track guys I know charge hard for that big Pay check lol the one they are writing to have fun (I used to be one of em)

    Take some time read the article I put forth.

    Look You mean well, and I fully appreciate the link, however clearly your knowledge is pretty limited on this, so I invite you just as others on here
    At some point to take the time to do a couple of track days, again, you will be amazed at how much you do not know and get this, you can run whatever tire you want.
    Warning lots of myths will be dispelled and you will be an entirely different rider, Go for it.
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zWnkFL_Y__g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #66
  7. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    I guess most of you do not realize it, but the vast majority at the race track are not there to race, they are there to simply practice their skills

    There are groups so you will not be thrown to the wolves

    It IS NOT A RACE, take your time and learn, the hot headed Rossi Wannabes almost always blow thru a couple corners.
    #67
  8. MT Wallet

    MT Wallet Long timer

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    "Look You mean well, and I fully appreciate the link, however clearly your knowledge is pretty limited on this, so I invite you just as others on here
    At some point to take the time to do a couple of track days, again, you will be amazed at how much you do not know and get this, you can run whatever tire you want."
    I've seen some condescending and patronizing remarks by many people of all stripes but pal, you take the cake. You're obviously looking for some kind of acknowledgement for something. Do you think you're famous or just some sad poser who wishes he was. I usually don't get offended by much but your arrogant attitude is offensive. Nobody's opinion or experience or even a manufacturer can trump your vast name dropping self serving crap. Feel free to kiss my tire scuffing ass.
    #68
  9. Louis Wambsganss

    Louis Wambsganss Been here awhile

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    While we're at it, let's quote a few more manufacturers concerning their new street legal motorcycle tires.

    Michelin: http://motorcycle.michelinman.com/advice/faq/about-the-purchase-and-use-of-my-tires
    DO I HAVE TO RUN MY TIRES IN?
    Yes. When new tires are fitted, they need to be run in for the first 60 miles or so, gradually increasing the lean of the bike and keeping to a moderate speed before the tire reaches optimum performance.

    Bridgestone: http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/note/index.html
    LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL DUE TO FAILURE TO “BREAK-IN” TIRES.
    Use extreme caution when riding on new tires.
    Avoid sudden acceleration,maximum braking,and hard cornering for first 100 miles.

    Metzeler: http://www.metzeler.com/site/us/tech-and-safety/safety-maintenance.html
    Run-in
    For optimum performance, new tyres should be ridden on cautiously for the first 100-200 km. During this run-in period sudden acceleration, heavy braking, and hard cornering must be avoided.

    In fact, Pirelli is the only manufacturer from whom I could not find a specific statement about new tire break-in procedures. Either Pirelli does something during construction that no other manufacturer does, or they just don't make mention of break-in and assume that their dealer network will inform riders.
    #69
  10. k-moe

    k-moe Long timer

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    Take a moment from your very important life and look up the definition for the following word:

    assume


    Now I'm going to make an assumption about you. You are a darksider, which is why your tires don't need scrubbing in.
    #70
  11. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    Yea, thats it, My goal on here was just to be a total prick and not to help dispel a bullshit myth that does not allow people to be better riders.
    As long as you keep making excuses they will continue to suffer.


    I KNOW what I need to do in regard to my tires, which has been posted up here in various aspects, I have not made idiotic assumptions Since I took my first track day and learned from those more knowledgeable than myself. A place where assumptions get you on your side.

    But I guess this means ya'll are afraid to go for real and have the myth dispelled? That is fine, be ignorant it is a good place for fools
    Congratulations nancy sue, for confirming that yes, everyone aught to be careful as I stated before, not because of slick tires, but because get this, an entirely new riding profile, Rocket science, clearly you are not one.
    #71
  12. k-moe

    k-moe Long timer

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    How does one "become" an entire field of study? :rofl
    #72
  13. Louis Wambsganss

    Louis Wambsganss Been here awhile

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    Dunlop mentions an acclamation period for the rider to get used to the profile of a new tire. The three I quoted specifically make mention of breaking in the tire, not the rider.

    No one here is saying you are wrong about a cold tire having less grip than a tire at optimum temperature. That certainly is a valid consideration. As is the need for the rider to get used to the profile of new tires.

    The problem is that you are completely dismissing anyone and everyone who says anything about surface film or abrasion playing a part at times.

    If you had an altruistic intent here to inform the rest of us peons of the massive knowledge gained on your first track day, you have gone about it in a terribly inefficient manner. Your name calling, personal attacks, arrogance, condescension, and refusal to even consider any evidence to the contrary of your pre-formed opinion have alienated anyone who may have listened to you if you had presented your ideas in a thoughtful manner.

    Regardless of the way you delivered your opinion, I feel that there is sufficient evidence to debunk it. Yes, cold tires can be slick. Yes, new tires feel different than old tires. But at least some new tires can also benefit from a few easy miles to remove any possible surface coatings and establish a uniform surface roughness that interacts well with road surfaces.

    It only takes a single case to the contrary to disprove the kind of absolute statements you have been making. The rest of us have provided several.
    #73
  14. Louis Wambsganss

    Louis Wambsganss Been here awhile

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    He is correct here as well. I am not a rocket science. I am not any kind of science. I am merely a man.
    #74
  15. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    BY being a complete jackass, apparently.
    #75
  16. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    Whatever, the rest did nothing but provide subjective BS, I do appreciate your research and I hope you go further and try some track days, ride safe
    #76
  17. Jayrod1318

    Jayrod1318 Poster

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    Are new tires as slick on a treadmill as they are on pavement?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    #77
  18. ozmoses

    ozmoses Ride On

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    I'll surmise his thread is a response/refutation to my statement here:

    <table id="post23030375" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: 1px solid #575757; border-right: 0px">[​IMG] Yesterday, 06:38 AM </td><td class="thead" style="font-weight:normal; border: 1px solid #575757; border-left: 0px" align="right"> #3 </td></tr> <tr valign="top"><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px solid #575757; border-top: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" width="175"> ozmoses <sup></sup>
    Ride On

    [​IMG]

    Joined: Jul 2009
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    </td><td class="alt1" id="td_post_23030375" style="border-right: 1px solid #575757"> New tires- after mounting I scrub them with a stiff bristle brush and Dawn dish detergent, then hit them with the random orbit sander 60 grit before installing the wheels.

    So far, that has worked...
    __________________
    Opinions are like internet connections- everybody has one.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>






    in which case allow me to re-iterate that "so far, that has worked..."

    You,Blurr, are free to do as you see fit.
    #78
  19. henshao

    henshao Bained

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    But how does this apply to car tires?


























    :hide
    #79
  20. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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    If you go to the Pirelli UK website, and download the 220 page PDF which is their 2013 motorcycle tyre guide, on page 212 you will find........


    RUN-IN
    In order for your new tyres to provide optimum performance, all new tyres should be ridden very cauti- ously for the first 100-200 kms.
    Immediately after new tyres are mounted, sudden acceleration, heavy braking, and hard cornering must be avoided until the 100-200 Kms run-in period is completed.




    #80