New tire need scuffing myth

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by TheBlurr, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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    Sorry The Blurr, I couldn't resist, found this funny, hope you do too ;-)
    verb<h:span class="neutral" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box; font-style: normal;">(</h:span>blurs, blurring, blurred<h:span class="neutral" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box; font-style: normal;">)</h:span><section class="senseGroup" style="margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box;">
    • make or become unclear or less distinct
    </section><section class="senseGroup" style="margin: 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box;">noun


    • a thing that cannot be seen or heard clearly
    </section>
    #81
  2. TheBlurr

    TheBlurr Banned

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    Ok I cannot take the idiocy any longer

    Do you have warning stickers on anything you buy? YES why?
    To avoid any kind of lawsuit, they will do anything to limit their responsibility within one. Sometimes within industry even when there is no chance because stupid rumors get started, as with this you still carry BS warnings.
    Ask yourself, if you are a tire manufacturer even though you know it is BS, should some little butt stain eat shit right off what are his odds of a successful lawsuit without this warning?
    Well if this forum is a jury then we would have your answer now wouldn't we?
    Example when you are filling up at a gas station there is absolutely no way in hell your Cell phone can start a fire, however because enough brainless twits saw a video of a fire they believe it is true. Petrol companies get scared and just in case put up signs.
    Its not, it cannot happen no way, no how feel free to do your research on it as well.

    Now Lets go over something else, Mr Holsts Pedigree


    1. Roadraced from 1985-1998 with success in club,
      regional, Formula USA and AMA Pro racing
    2. Motorcyclist magazine Associate Editor and later went
      on to co-found Sport Rider magazine
    3. Team Manager of HyperCycle Suzuki AMA Pro
      roadracing team 1997-1998

    • Won AMA 750 SuperSport in the team's rookie
      season with Jason Pridmore
    • Recruited the little-known 16-year-old Nicky
      Hayden to his first professional paid ride
    <li class="auto-style16">Chief Instructor and founding member of
    Jason Pridmore's STAR Motorcycle School 1998-2001 <li class="auto-style16">Chief Instructor and founding member of
    Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School 2001-2005 <li class="auto-style16">Freelance journalist, riding coach, curriculum writer,
    researcher and consultant with Sport Rider magazine,
    Buell and Harley-Davidson among others from 2005
    to present day. I've devoted a large portion of my life to observing, analyzing,
    theorizing and teaching riders of all ability levels. I've been
    privileged to create curriculums around World Champion
    racers and teach alongside them in U.S., Germany, France
    and Japan. I've taken that experience to create the
    Holst Ride Smarter School designed for riders of any ability
    level, on any type of bike to learn to ride smarter, safer and
    more confidently in any situation."

    So based on his career as not only a Racer but a Team manager, as Someone who founded schools for one of the most talented racing legends in the world. Spending years within the journalist community riding god only knows how many motorbikes all on fresh un scuffed tires he suspected just as another racer on this thread, that the Stories regarding the new tire slickness were BS.

    Now lets go over the reasons people think he is wrong

    1. most popular "My trusted mechanic said so"
    Ok so where did he get his information? Oh thats right he heard it and carried it forth as well,

    2. Well my tires feel slick
    I addressed that earlier as well as the mental aspect

    3. Well well sanding my tires has worked so far
    Really? So your comparison to riding a tire without scrubbing how now?

    4. My rear end slid out on me once 2 HOURS after I started riding, it had to be the film on the side of the tire, there is no other reason

    LoLz :lol3
    #82
  3. ozmoses

    ozmoses Ride On

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    Years ago ( pre -internet) I did not clean my tires at all prior to riding;one day while having fresh rubber installed at a Dealer I noticed the tech take the freshly mounted tires out the back door so I followed. There he had a bucket of soapy water and a stiff bristled brush. We talked and he mentioned this was SOP but that he, personally, took it a step further and hit his own tires with a sanding disk before riding.

    When I began changing my own, I simply followed suit through many tires,miles & smiles; again, so far it has worked.


    Anyone who has ridden on the street knows what to expect from fresh rubber. It seems your experience differs 100%-good for you, stick with it. The rest of us will stick with our method.

    What, exactly, is it you need to hear in regard to this topic?
    I'll tell you what I hear-waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, look at me.

    LoLz:lol3


    Out of curiosity-how long have you been riding?

    I'll go first-30 years.
    #83
  4. C/1/509

    C/1/509 Why?

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    I guess I don't understand the argument. I don't do the scrubbing/sanding thing, but always ride a little conservatively on new tires for the first 50 - 100 miles. Do I really need to? I dunno, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything. If you go like hell (or ride the way you would normally ride, whatever) on brand new tires and don't have issues, great. What's the issue?
    #84
  5. dogjaw

    dogjaw plays well alone

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    I recently highsided my bike, posted the incident over in Faceplant... My tires were well scrubbed in, but it wasn't until I got the bike home and under some good light that I noticed this:

    [​IMG]

    Although I'm sure that there were many factors involved, it appears to me that I ventured a little to far over into the unscrubbed "chicken strip" area, and it is possible that if that area had been scrubbed in, I may have had a bit more forgiveness. Is this 100 percent accurate? Probably not, but if pre scrubbing in the tires would help even a bit, and doesn't appear to do any harm, and the manufacturers suggest it for whatever reason, I will resume doing it in the future. I had always done it to previous bikes, but bought this bike on the road in Colorado and rode it home to Arkansas.
    #85
  6. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

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    5. The person(s) in this thread directly involved with current modern tire manufacturing who know mold release agents are still used.

    6. The manufacturers, who give break-in procedures for new DOT street tires.

    7. The manufacturers, who offer various preparations for competition tires.

    I'm sure it was an accident on your part that you forgot those.
    #86
  7. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    If you take safety advice from someone you've not met the 'net you deserve what you get. When it comes to motorcycles prudence is not hurting anyone.
    #87
  8. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    I think the best way to settle this is to have a little race of sorts.
    Same bikes, TheBlurr with freshly installed tires against someone else with run in tires on a tight and twisty course.
    #88
  9. erkmania

    erkmania Last of the red hot left pipers

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    I love a thread that implodes on itself...and, particularly if the OP gets a good and proper beat-down for telling others how the world IS. That's just good entertainment, right there.

    I also find that I usually get more education from the respondents than from the OP and you folks didn't disappoint. Thanks.

    To the OP, why do you care so much? You're blathering will have little positive effect on anyone that heeds your advice. You are likely the first person I have read that advocated against safety.

    My tire preparation includes a couple of variations.

    1) I have been known to use WD-40 on tire beads to seat them. It has seemed to prevent tire slippage on the rim more than using tire soap. That's just from my anecdotal testing. And, I use 'just' enough to get the bead seated by applying it onto the bead with a rag prior to mounting (this was not meant as a highjack).

    2) I use brake cleaner sprayed onto a rag to clean the outermost 1-inch per side of the tread. This cleans off any residual installation elixirs or surface contaminants. I have done this for years be my bike street or race based. Knobbies (or big-block tires) don't usually get that much attention unless they're for a street-going adventure bike.

    3) I don't really sweat the break-in period too much. If I did that during a race then the race might be over before I ever got up to speed. :D Nevertheless, I do not neglect the warning, either. After installing tires, I will do about a ten-mile road test to be sure the beads are seated and that I got most of the tread put into service. Also, I do not toss the bike onto its side aggressively until I know that most of the tread surface has been used at least once. This gives me the chance to sense if the new tire(s) are going to be alright. I have found that medium speed sweepers (50 to 75 mph) are good to scuff tires on because you can roll into them gently and keep accelerating until your desired maximum lean is accomplished. Further, the higher speeds keep the bike stable (compared to 25 mph residential speeds) if there IS a temporary loss of grip.

    I prefer to NOT run-in tires on residential or urban roads; too many oily deposits and debris. Once my initial road test is done then I give the tires a final visual inspection and a pressure check. So, I estimate that I am cautious for about 10 to 20 miles after installation, not 100 miles.

    I really suspect that litigation has driven the manufacturers to be very conservative.

    Lastly, I do not condone your use of my techniques if you are not comfortable with them. :deal
    #89
  10. dmcd

    dmcd Been here awhile

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    2008, man from Pirelli says don't "scrub in" tyres.

    2013, Pirelli tech sheet still says "run in" tyres.


    Pick whichever one you like, and have a Merry Christmas!
    #90
  11. Motomantra

    Motomantra Registered Lurker

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    I scrub my new tires with a wire brush, to make sure the ARMOR-ALL I sprayed on them gets impregnated.
    #91
  12. JustinP

    JustinP Long timer

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    Well duh. Off course tire manufacturers are selling "slick" tires. If you ever watch the pit crew at motorcycle races, you will see them sanding the new tires before putting them on. :lol3

    Seriously though, the thing you need to be careful of with new tires is grease and oil from the shop floor or from the technician's hand that mounted them.
    #92
  13. pennswoodsed

    pennswoodsed lizards,bugs and me

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    ok , on the sticker thing, many if not most here may find this absolutely unbelievable . Racers are superstitious about the stickers, I have been stopped by several racers from pulling the sticker off.
    It has been some time since I handled a new Pirelli, so maybe they no longer use mold release agent.But , I can say that new tires are greasy feeling in your hands and on roads for +/- 100 miles . Any one else here seen a tire mold in person ?
    May I have the Pirelli engineers name ? :deal
    #93
  14. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave I cannot abide.

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    This thread is such BS for the new tires I've put on.

    My last experience, and forst video with my new Gopro camera, was a reminder as to why most of us need to remember to take it easy on new tires. I was so focused on the new camera that I wasn't focused on the new rear tire, so at a corner that I used to, and now, take hard I almost lost the bike due to what I'm now being told was a fake/imagined slipperiness to the tire. Comically, that slide-out and loss of control, and near high-side, almost happened again at a different spot that ride because, again, I was focused on the camera and just treating the bike as if it had the old rear tire on (smae make/model).
    #94
  15. GI_JO_NATHAN

    GI_JO_NATHAN Long timer

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    Isn't this basically what we're talking about scrubbing off?
    Sounds like it's been confirmed by someone that makes tires, that some do use a release agent, and sometimes it stays on the tires.
    Case closed.

    This is the best idea yet.
    #95
  16. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

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    I have no idea which, if any, tires have "mold release." What I do believe (from firsthand experience) is some, not all, new tires are slick.

    No vast experience here.But on one occasion after installing the wheel, I pulled out of my driveway and made an immediate 90* left (10mph or so). The front end washed out but I was able to recover. This was not because it was cold or the profile - it was slick. Nothing in the road. Returned to the house and cleaned off the tires. Awesome tire after I got some miles on it.

    The tire was new. FACT
    The tire was slick. FACT

    Why was it slick? Mold release; grease from my hands; did the tire suddenly seat in the rim; alien tractor beam?? No idea. Nothing the OP posted "debunks" that experience even if what he posted was factual.

    The OP tried to "debunk" one possible cause (mold release) and assume it would be the only possible cause. He also equates track/racing experience with recreational experience. This is flawed logic. I don't care how experienced somebody is, if their logic is flawed their conclusion is also likely flawed.

    No mold release? Fine. Then my tire was slick for some other reason when it was new. Until I know why some tires are like this, I will continue to lightly sand the surface of all of them and make sure they get numerous heat cycles before I ride aggressively.
    #96
  17. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    Too long, didn't bother to read, still gonna take it easy for the first few miles on new tires. :lol3
    #97
  18. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    Until someone here can visit EVERY single motorcycle tire manufacturing plant in the world and certify that the are 100% free of mold release, and certify that all mounting lubricants are free of any slippery substances, I am going to behave as if mold release is on my tires. I am pretty confident that the Shinko tires I use have mold release. For a fact they are slick unless cleaned buffed and gravel roaded. Not slick like ice, but half normal traction.

    They are not racing tires, they are for the street. I have not been on racing tires in over 30 years.

    The OP could regularly walk on water, have super human skills that negate the need for tire scuffing, hell he could have the ability to suspend the laws of physics. I am still breaking in my tires and recommend any other mere mortal break in their tires. In fact I have learned over the years that as soon as one puffs out their chest to show all their metals, there is no substance in their words.

    This is as silly as ABS and motor oil arguments.


    Rod
    #98
  19. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    From personal experience, I crashed my poor old CB750 coming out of mechanic's garage on new set of tires. Rear wheel spun and slid like it was on ice.

    A bit older and wiser, when I sat on my recently purchased SV650, used from the dealer but with brand new tires, I made sure to do a bunch of figure 8s in their parking lot, as well as braking. Rear tire would lock up almost immediately with rear brake, only after a little bit of riding and gradually putting more force into braking, did it stop locking up, and I was comfortable to get on the street on it.

    OP you can listen to all experts in the world, but personal real life experience trumps them all.
    #99
  20. fallingoff

    fallingoff Banned

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    did the same out my driveway
    very embarrassing
    cold tyre
    lesson be careful
    when tyres are cold/new/greasy garage floor/worked on bike etc

    merry xmas