Newbie to trials, any insight would be helpful

Discussion in 'Trials' started by fortizgur, May 29, 2013.

  1. fortizgur

    fortizgur Adventurer

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    Hello all,,, I would like to get into trials just for fun in the back yard kind of stuff,, have plenty of space. First question, are the four strokes that much better then smokers? thanks!
    #1
  2. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    The 2 strokes still rule in trials. (They still would in mx if they would let them.) The only 4 strokes at the world round was team Honda. Those bikes are unavailable. But if you need something quiet, the 4 stroke Beta would be it!
    #2
  3. fortizgur

    fortizgur Adventurer

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    got an offer on a Montesa 94 for $1000,, was told top end was recently done. Also, when i asked for title guy said its pre 95 guess that means they didnt title back then???? Any thougths??? Thanks in advance for any input.
    #3
  4. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    The 314 was not a favorite bike in it`s day. It was the first Honda powered montesa and very well built. A little hard to find parts now. For a first bike it might just be a keeper depending on condition.
    #4
  5. motojunky

    motojunky Professional Idiot

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    I had a 314 as my first trials bike. It was very solidly built, easy to ride, good looking and made me smile. Mike at The Tryals Shop had the few parts that I needed while I owned it. It has been a couple of years though - I'm not sure how much the parts situation might have changed.

    I wish I had kept mine. It really is a good newbie bike IMO and should carry you through beginner and novice competition just fine.

    FWIW, I advertised mine on ADVRider for $1,400 and it sold in a couple hours. After the next owner banged it (and himself) up pretty good in a crash, he advertised it here for $800 and it sold very quickly again.
    #5
  6. GrayEagleRider

    GrayEagleRider Been here awhile

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  7. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    If you want something to ride just for fun, then why not a TLR Honda or TY Yam? Lot less money than a modern bike, easily available and cheap parts, and are relatively good for trail riding if you ever choose to give it a try.
    #7
  8. Seavoyage

    Seavoyage Been here awhile

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    I agree with Twin-shocker that a TLR or TY make great play bikes.

    Caveat Emptor: the 1970 Honda RTL250 Sammy Miller prototype weighed 198 lbs with magnesium and titanium bits. The production TL250 weighed 230 lbs. and the TL125 194 lbs. Many argue that these Honda 4-strokes are, in reality, more trail play bikes than true competion models: I would defer to Eddie Lejeune to disprove that point of view.

    These vintage bikes are closely related to the MX and Enduro bikes of the era, and are relatively heavy. According to the August 1986 edition of Cycle; the Honda TRL200 Reflex weighed 231 lbs.; a Yamaha TY250 weighs 205 lbs.; and a TY125/TY175 weight 196 lbs. In comparison a 2002 GasGas Pro or cuurent Ossa 280i weigh less than 150 lbs. (Wet)

    If you question the performance envelope of a vintage bike with an air-cooled piston port motor, damper-rod suspension, and drum brakes; in trials is more about the rider than the equipment. Here's a video to support the argument:

    Charles Coutard in 1977 on a Bultaco Sherpa (200 lbs.) and in 1987 on a Yamaha TY250R (216 lbs.):

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s-3-9Xi5a_k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

    At my age, I'm too weak to deal with the weight of vintage bikes (or the weight distribution, powerband, and suspension)... I just ride a modern GasGas Pro which you can find used in the $1500-$2500 range.

    The 2004 FIM proposed 4-stroke ruling to comply with EU emission standards was the primary driver that drove the manufacturers (Montesa, Beta, Scorpa, Sherco, GasGas) to develop and offer 4-strokes. The 4-stroke ruling never came into fruition, and Sherco, Scorpa and GasGas have since abandoned 4-strokes for competition trials motorcycles. GasGas experimented with a side-valve 4-stroke which was never produced for the market. Scorpa 4-stroke engines were provided by Yamaha.

    The new manufacturers: JotaGas, Ossa, and Xispa don't even pursue 4-stroke technology: too expensive to develop and arguably too difficult to keep competitive for small manufacturers. Essentially you are left with the Montesa (Honda) and the Beta. Montesa is not imported into the US.
    #8
  9. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    For around about 90% of new riders, starting out on an old TS bike will mean their riding improves far quicker than if on a modern bike. For play bike use a TS is better than modern in nearly every way, and its pretty easy to convert something like a TLR 200 Honda into a relatively competitive bike, quite able to cope with easy route in modern events.

    Its a real shame that at the moment there arent any bikes 100% suited for beginners on the market, but I guess that as trials becomes more and more specialised the gap between the gap of bike produced to cope with WTC competition, and something good for a beginner becomes ever wider.
    #9
  10. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    Don't listen to TS, he still has wooden wheels on his truck.:D
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  11. dmay

    dmay Been here awhile

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    Modern bike=Good clutch and brake action=Time spent concentrating on riding technique and having fun.

    Find someone to ride with,will help with the discipline of drilling on skills.
    $2500 buys a bike you can just ride without having to rebuild.

    Vintage means tuning brakes,working on clutch,suspension,chasing parts,watching ebay continuously...
    All in good fun,but if your objective is to learn to ride trials then I recommend late model bikes.
    #11
  12. Boom Boom

    Boom Boom Been here awhile

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    +1, well said
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  13. straight_8

    straight_8 SM rims for KTM wanted

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    I just bought an Ossa 280i Factory:clap ...only "sat" on a trials bike in a shop once, I've been riding for 7 years now and raced mountainbikes. I can do basic trials on my hardtail but it's not the right tool for the job. I cant wait for it to get here and see if I can do anything at all. I live way up north and will be the only trials rider for 1000's of miles...:deal
    #13
  14. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    Congratulations! I am sure you will have a blast! :clap

    Trials is the best think I ever did on a bike and gets better every time I ride. Have fun!
    #14
  15. BEEF706

    BEEF706 King of the dumb dab

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    Yup, what he said!:nod
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  16. Night Falcon

    Night Falcon Adventure NZL

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    yup what he said he said :lol3
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  17. Huzband

    Huzband Team Dirt

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    This.

    Vintage trials is like vintage anything else. If you did'nt do it back then, don't start with it now.

    My first trials bike as a young teen was a Montesa Cota 123. What a POS!. But my next was a Sherpa T 326. OMG!!!

    But I digress. I now am the proud owner of an '04 Sherco 2.9. Nine years old, yes. But still modern enough to not be outdated.
    #17
  18. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Would agree completely the old Spanish bikes are very poor.


    However something like a 200 Fantic, can easily cope with beginner route in modern trials, and even though these bikes are now 30 years old, many are still being used regularly, and parts arent difficult to find.

    Wonder how many of the current bikes will still be in use 30 years down the line?
    #18
  19. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    Where do you find parts for a Fantic? the few I have, I paid through the nose for, unless a friend had the part, or Mike at tryals shoppe had them.

    What reason would you suggest to buy an antique, instead of reasonably new? I argue that you have no clue about scarcity of trials bikes in USA, let alone the "fantics" that you find once in a while...

    I keep getting sick, with you, that think that a modern trials bike, is such a big ol death threat? My god man, there is risk in anything for riders that are not prepared, and wont get used to something.

    Have you ever twisted the throttle on a street bike that is more than 100cc's or a harley? No you probably havent Twinshocker, that TLR200 is probably all you can handle. since you keep hiding and popping in and out or threads around here, without ever even proving you own a motorcycle let alone a trials bike.

    The freaking HONDA bought "not given to a factory rider, pre modified" was about the least competitive bike ever made. We all that rode trials in the 70's know this. Especially now, we know, because Lots of information has come to light about how many mods were made to the "factory's TOP_riders_only_versions" of the bikes, especially honda's versus the "normal" found on showroom floors about as closely resemble a "dealer ship floor model" as the freaking batmobile resembles the freaking car it was built from.
    #19
  20. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    :lurk
    #20