next bike has already been built

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by dirtyron, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. dirtyron

    dirtyron never grew up

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    every bike i buy for the rest of my life has already been made. nothing from the new millenium does it for me. and there getting worse.
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  2. zippy

    zippy Hinter dem Feld

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    you are certainly limiting your choices... But to each his own..




    and step away from the shrooms
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  3. RxZ

    RxZ Legal Drug Dealer

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    I just bought a low mileage 2002 FZ1. I would be upset if I wasn't allowed to buy it because it was built in the wrong century. :cry
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  4. fierostetz

    fierostetz Been here awhile

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    I loves me some 1g FZ1's - get ivan's jet kit - it's a whole new bike!
    #4
  5. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    [​IMG]
    #5
  6. DOGSROOT

    DOGSROOT OUTSIDE

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    I dunno phORk, poking fun at octogenarians ain't too cool.



    Dirtyron, its a shame that lovely bikes like the Ducati MTS PP weren't around when you were young and full of beans.



    Like, say, in you earlyr 60's... :augie
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  7. dirtyron

    dirtyron never grew up

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    some nice bikes made in 02..... red keys, extra fat, headlights that look like chandoliers,more complexity, catalytic converters. pretty soon mandated abs. this is not what got me into motorcycles. yeah i 'm old.:D
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  8. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    All road vehicles are becoming increasingly complex because they must meet
    ever-tightening regulations for emissions, and also because governments
    force adoption of safety-related devices.


    Anyone who knows much about cars knows that in the last twenty years they have
    become increasingly complex and significantly more difficult ( and expensive ) to
    diagnose and repair. I don't know a single engineer who would tell you that any of this
    is a good thing. The same thing is beginning to happen to motorcycles.


    The people who claim that a preference for slightly older vehicles is a symptom of
    old age are making an ad hominem attack rather than using valid reasoning to justify
    their position. If this was a debate moderated by educated people their position would
    be the losing one. Increased complexity which detracts from reliability and adds to the
    expense of operating a vehicle cannot be seen as desirable by a rational observer,
    unless that observer is in the business of repairing vehicles and thus stands to gain from
    fixing problems vehicle owners cannot possibly fix themselves due to the complexity
    of the vehicle systems.


    Bikes are nowhere near as bad as cars with respect to complexity and problems, but
    they're headed toward the sort of complexity which will require connecting to a computer
    to have any hope of determining the source of some problems. It is difficult to imagine
    how anyone could find such a machine preferable to a machine which could be diagnosed
    and repaired with common tools.



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  9. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    I bet some environmental engineers might. Safety engineers, too.

    It isn't like we need bikes or cars to go any faster than they did twenty years ago. Safer and cleaner sounds like a pretty good idea, along with more comfortable.
    #9
  10. OrangeYZ

    OrangeYZ Been here awhile

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    In the Carb's hayday it was pretty good for an engine to last 80,000 miles. Now if something doesn't last 200,000 it's a lemon.

    If you get into a decent wreck, would you rather walk to the dealer and buy another car (nowadays) or have your next of kin hose what's left of you out of the dash and sell the perfectly good car to the next guy (good old days)?
    #10
  11. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    Of course some engineers could ( will ) have a bias in favor of their area of expertise.


    But if that's all they are considering they aren't looking at the big picture, which is that
    the bike must provide a satisfying experience to the end user. A bike which runs
    poorly in stock form but meets emissions standards can be considered a success
    by the engineer who was charged with meeting emissions standards yet the same
    bike can considered a failure by the end user who will want to modify the bike
    so it runs well. As you probably know many end users do modify their bikes such that
    various emission control components are either deactivated or removed and the bike
    runs properly as a result. I see the need to do this as a failure on the part of the engineers
    who designed those systems in the bike; it is certainly no longer necessary to
    remove parts of the emission control system in a car to make it run well.


    I'm not saying all technological improvements are undesirable. But the sort of design which
    causes a CANBUS system to go bonkers when a light bulb is changed is not an improvement.


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  12. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Bike sales didn't decline in 2012 in the States, so I'm not sure what your railing against.

    Are things they way they used to be? No. Is everyone upset about that? No.

    Times change.

    I should add that you couldn't pay me to go back to a carburated non-ABS bike. I've heard of bikes with unpleasant low-throttle fuelling, but that's a software problem on a FI bike, not a hardware problem.
    #12
  13. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    There are many factors which result in engines lasting longer than they used to,
    and the accurate mixture control given by fuel injection is not the only reason or
    even the main reason. But if believing that fuel injection is why engines lasts longer
    is pleasing to you that's fine.



    Regarding a wreck, obviously the answer is that most of us would prefer to survive
    and ideally we would prefer to survive without injuries. I prefer not to have
    the wreck in the first place and I drive accordingly and for over 35 years this
    approach has worked well for me. I prefer to take responsibility for my own life
    rather than driving like an idiot and depending on safety devices to save me like
    some of the morons on the highway do. By the way, air bags won't necessarily
    save you if you are involved in a head-on collision. If you don't believe
    this is the case ask any EMT or cop about what they have seen in the aftermath
    of such accidents. ( DOA is a common result ).



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  14. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Have you ever driven next to a lane of oncoming traffic? What prevents them from turning 15 degrees and slamming into you?

    You have some control over what accidents you don't get into, but you don't have complete control. If you're old enough to be pining for carbs, your reflexes probably aren't so hot anymore, either.
    #14
  15. OrangeYZ

    OrangeYZ Been here awhile

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    Would you say that air bags are better or worse than impaling yourself on the steering column?
    You want to stay out of accidents in the first place, don't you think that improvements in tires, suspension, brakes and overall handing will help?

    A helmet won't save me if I get run over by a semi, but I still wear one.
    #15
  16. Offcenter

    Offcenter On The Road Again!

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  17. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    Railing ?

    I wasn't even warmed up yet :rofl


    I prefer simple reliable machines which work well.


    Other people can and should buy what they like.



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  18. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Okay, sure, you weren't complaining about the way bikes are all complicated now and stuff.
    #18
  19. DaFoole

    DaFoole Erudite inchoate...

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    :augie


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  20. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    I expressed my personal dislike of the increasing complexity of newer bikes.

    Since that is my OPINION, this is not a case which involves me being
    right or you being right or one or the other of us being wrong. It is an
    expression of my preference, and in matters of preference there is no
    such thing as "right" or "wrong".


    What you prefer is your choice. You ( and everyone else ) should buy and
    ride the bike you prefer, and everyone can be happy with his or her choice :D



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