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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Pigeon, Feb 12, 2013.
That would result in much less site traffic.
I find your guesses of my abilities and physical characteristics to be nothing
so much as proof you are not very smart. Assumptions without facts are the
province of fools.
I'm done discussing this with you.
Given that you continued to "discuss" with me long after I posted that, I think I'll live.
If you are over 35, your reflexes have turned the corner (as have mine), whether or not you get touchy about it. If you are much younger than 35, I find it hard to believe you really know how bad carbed cars sucked to live with.
This thread is a typical example of the power of nostalgia. Home wrenching is great, but modern safety and emissions standards arguably outweigh the changes. being able to start on a cold day or ride at altitude is invaluable.
There are certainly benefits and drawbacks to each choice.
I would love to get a good 750 Commando again. Would I try to ride it daily as transport? No. Way too much of a PITA; modern bikes work a hell of a lot better. And the Commando is one of the more usable and functional of vintage bikes.
I really like my Monster M900. I think it hits a sweet spot in bike tech -- it is modern enough to be reliable and made with modern materials and manufacturing tech, so it is durable and mostly trouble-free, yet old enough to be simple and repairable. Yes, it has carbs, but they are good advanced carbs, and have not caused much trouble; they start in cold weather and all that. It is quite likely I will be riding it for a long time yet.
However, if I did need to replace it for some reason, I would be happy to move to a new bike with FI and ABS and all the goodies that modern tech entails. It will no longer be repairable by me with handtools, yet it will work well and long and not take very much attention either.
It's all trade-offs.
it really comes down to what you want out of a motorcycle. some people get off on the latest computerized gps enabled traction controlled,transformer styled electro gizmo.good for them.just don't drop it unless you have some friends around to help you pick it up. don;t break it unless you got the bucks for the dealer to fix it. (oh but the bmw dealer was so nice to send the truck to retrieve the bike. they only took 2 days to figure out what was wrong.) as i said that is not what motorcycling has ever been for me. jay leno once said his brough superior was the most fun to ride out of his vast stable.it was about involvement.my carbureted 98 ducati gets 60+ mpg , weighs under 400 lbs.and will keep up with any new sportbike in the canyons. its relativly easy to work on .another thing that annoys me is the newer bikes look cheap. every thing looks optimized for the assembly line. and digital guages,,please. ireally think motorcycles reached there zenith in the late 90s early millenium.
No nostalgia here... I rode all that 60's and 70's crap back in the 60's and 70's.
Every new generation of bikes I've ridden since then has been both more fun to ride and an improvement in terms of reliability, low maintenance, handling, performance, etc etc.
I'm old enough that I no longer need "more power" but "Skyhook" active suspension? ABS? Multiple maps? High power LED lights? Hell yes, sign me up!
People said the same things about cars in the 90's. Perhaps that cohort aged out, but present day enthusiasts are pretty happy with the offerings. Are there computers in those cars (and newer bikes)? Sure, but a computer is just a fancy abacus: you can make it do what you want it to do.
I don't think that riding has to be about the motorcycle - the bike should just work for those that want it to (which is almost certainly the majority of riders). Maybe a simple bike made with todays advancements in metals and machining would be nice, but it would never pass EPA regs. I think less vehicular emissions are a good goal, even a noble goal. Smog isn't a figment of our imagination:
A discussion about EPA regs is an entirely different kettle of fish, but if you take the modern emissions changes as a given (and, to be legal, you must), then the rest of the stuff is pretty easy to add. Not all EFI bikes have bad fueling - the DL650 is pretty damn good in that regard and the pre 2012 bikes are essentially a 14 year old ignition system design. Sure, there are a few somewhat twitchy EFI bikes out there but newer ECUs have more resolution and there were duds before EFI.
Technological progress is inevitable. With progress comes complexity - perhaps that is why the antique car market is thriving right now (though that is a collector-heavy segment and not all purchasers are enthusiasts).
As for gauges, I still like an analog tach at the least, analog speedo if I can get it - you can get some information via peripheral vision that way. An LCD for other stuff is fine, nothing wrong with a digital clock or a thermometer, or a gas gauge for that matter. Not a big fan of a digital speedo, and digital tachometers just seem weird.
Of course, "analog" tachometers and speedometers in most modern bikes are computer controlled anyway, so the actual needle is just aesthetic. A pleasant one, but about as necessary as chrome on a muffler.
I'll admit I'm not gonzo for electronic adjust suspension (perhaps just BMW's version with its unmodifiable presets), but the skyhook system sounds neat as hell.
Automotive ....fuel injection all the way. It's made 4x4'n mucho better
ABS...in my car I don't mind it, but in my 4x4 I totally hate it, best way to write off ur truck on the bush summer or winter
FI on bikes. I don't think it's quite there yet quality wise from what I have read on this and other sites.
ABS on a bike, not for me for the riding I do. Maybe on a street only bike it is a great idea but in an off road/DS bike I think it would suck. I have seen some videos of the big "Adventure" bikes off road trying to get down a slick/gravel hill and loose all braking due to the ABS "working" :eek1.....
I love my Super Enduro.
NO fly by wire
NO electronic suspension
I'm pushing 50 and I like some of the new stuff AND some of the old stuff
I love my Super Enduro.
NO fly by wire
NO electronic suspension
and if you drop it crossing that creek you're not absoloutly f*****d
Modern cars and bikes aren't necessarily harder to work on. You may just need different tools and/or knowledge.
My OBDII car doesn't require hooking up to anything to pull codes. I just jumper a plug and cycle the key, then watch the CEL. It tells you what sensors are getting tripped.
My ABS car stops great on ice, in a straight line or swerving. I changed the brakes on it this past autumn, like I have on any other car I've ever had. Changing the pads and rotors was a hell of a lot easier than changing drums, shoes, cylinders, and hardware.
ECM goes bad? This happened on my MPI Jeep Wrangler. Squirrels also chewed through the wiring to 2 injectors. I soldered in new injector wires in maybe 20 minutes, including the time to set up my soldering iron. Then we swapped in an ECM found on Ebay for $50. It took maybe 10 minutes. I could easily carry a spare. The junkyards/salvagers have used ones, if I don't want to pay for a new one.
I know the simplicity of the klr is major pro for me. Or it could be I am really cheap and secretly lust for BMWs triumphs ktm or any other bike designed in this millennium. or maybe one of the many other options that are available on other continents.
this is about bikes, remember? actually you are making a good point. motorcyles are following the complexity of cars
Different applications, I suppose. For my own riding, if I am crossing a creek without using a bridge I've already screwed up. A FI bike with ABS is really great for a 24/7 commuter who travels on days from 20 degrees on up, rain or shine. My one carbed bike wasn't.
Plenty of people don't enjoy wrenching and would rather spend what free time they have on other pursuits. There are almost certainly more people like that than there are who like to handle repairs themselves in the US, if not among advrider's regular visitors, never mind people that don't even have garage space.
For someone like that, a mechanical failure might as well be a smoked ECU, they're just as stranded.
Ok then - let's hear it - if you could custom order a bike from any manufacturer, what would it be like?
ok i 'll bite. from ducati, lightweight aircooled twin along the lines of a ss or monster.analog gauges. forged wheels. fuel injection would be necessary to pass emmisions. no abs no 10 maps of god dam traction control no red key.under 400 lbs. ducati can build this . check out anything from radical ducati in spain or ncr in italy. don't need the titanium bits to keep the price down. from japan give me a light weight dualsport adv bike that is under 300 lbs. again spare me the electronics as much as possible.please do we really need 37 inch seat heigth and 14 inch ground clearance? i can not imagine taking one of these modern near 600 pound hippoes to mexico. if you can't pick it up and if you can't fix it yourself it ain't no adv bike. ok i'll stop here.
a lowered xr650r would be a great starting place for honda
Modern brakes are better than drum brakes, no more difficult to service and are safer. Six speeds are better than four, Six gives overdrive and modern transmissions shift better than old crap. Braided brake lines are better than dry rotting rubber. Modern radial tires are better than rock hard belted crap. Old bikes sometimes are not as plush as new bikes and adjustable suspensions are better than wishing your old bike handled a turn without folding in half. Fiberglass tanks melt with modern fuels and of course that crud gums up you fine carbs. Modern bikes start and idle without tinkering. Do you want to put aluminum foil on those rabbit ears again too? How about replacing vacumn tubes? That was fun stuff! Much better than modern.
Yes, we long for things old and simple. Truth is we have simple modern bikes too. That might not please some... there will always be those who don't trust the electric starter, damm contraption! There will be those who enjoy faulty points and replacing spark plugs...it's a tune up. There will be those who like old rubber that rots instead of modern silicone that does not.
That is ok.... if you like less modern things and they satisfy then that works.
You mean a 650L?
Honda would have a winner with a 650l base, add in an R motor with efi good for 60ish hp, and add usd front forks from the crf line, with a rally type front fairing for wind/weather protection, and a strong subframe for the addition of bags (or not, depending on your desire). Keep it between 300 and 350 lbs.Lower it by 3", and I would buy one tomorrow.