No Load LED Flash Relay and Diode Kit

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by MrPulldown, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    -NEW PRODUCT: 7 pin Suzuki no load LED flasher relay. $18 Shipped http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25773269&postcount=100
    -Two prong (B,L) no load LED flasher relay. Beeping or non-beeping . $9 shipped to the lower 48.
    -Dash turn signal indicator diode kit. $9 shipped to the lower 48.
    Both for $16 shipped.
    Tracking $1
    [​IMG]
    Part on right is the No Load Flasher Relay, part on left is OEM Suzuki. The orientation of the prongs does not effect it's mounting or function.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Flasher Relay
    Riding dual sport you tend to go through turn signals like they were a consumable. Drop the bike, lean it against a tree, loan it to a friend and you end up with a busted turn signal. Japanese, Euro, and some American bikes use a thermal/mechanical turn signal flasher relay. These rely on the resistance from your incandescent turn signal bulbs to flash the relay. My bike can stock with a 21 watt turn signal bulb. The first replacement turn signal I bought came with a 10 watt bulb. The result: blinker no flashy. One can not always simply replace the bulb either. Often these are mini bases which do not support high wattage bulbs, or only hard to source and expensive specialty bulbs have the correct wattage. From my experience a 23 watt bulbs works great, but a 17.9 will not provide enough load to flash the stock relay. Vendors often react like they never heard of this. Most have no idea what wattage the turn signals they sell operate at, or even list the wattage as a spec.

    These no load turn signal flasher relays are all electronic. They will flash the turn signals at a steady rate no matter what size (wattage) bulb. I first looked into these so that I did not have to get exact matching wattage of turn signal. This would have come in handy when I busted a turn signal on a dirt ride and had to do a long street ride home. Buddy had a 10 watt turn signal lying around, but it would not flash. I had to flash the signal manual. I purchased several relays before finding one that worked, and one that was a direct replacement. These are direct replacements for my Suzuki DR350SE, however I am sure they work for any two prong turn signal flasher relay. The two prongs are labeled “B” and “L”. The "B" I assume stands for Base Voltage or positive power from the source. The "L" for Load, this goes to the blinker. The L it the output side with the pulsed or flashing 12 volt + power. This relay plugs into the existing relay plug/connector and can be swapped out in 5 minutes. They even have the stock mounting tab, and comes with a new tab mounting rubber piece. I have been using this particular one for a season now, and it has worked flawlessly. Granted I have not submerged relay in water. These will also make great replacements for OEM relays that have gone belly up. The OEM Suzuki relay is over $50!!

    LEDs however are the main reason most folks are interested in no load flashers. LED turn signals seem to be the most popular type of replacements. Not only do the LED last forever, they are resistant to shock. Other than snapping one off you never have to replace them. Another thing that makes LEDs popular is that they require very little energy to run. People with limited electrical power output chose to use LED turn signals to free up energy. I personally do not think the energy saving makes a difference since turn signals are used so intermittently. However I guess if you are a city rider or do not like your headlights dimming at stop lights this is just cause. Running LED turn singles will require the use of a no load flasher relay.

    So you installed LED turn signals, swapped out a no load flasher, hit the switch, and the turn signals do not come on. The first thing to do is reverse the leads to the turn signals. LED are directional and require the + and – to go the right leads. OK you have this set up, turn on the flashers and all four lights come on. This is where the diode kit comes into play. Most likely your bike has a dash board indicator that flashes and informs you the turn signals are on. This is your problem. Pull the bulb and see if everything flashes correctly. If you can live with no indicator your problems are fixed: GO RIDE!! If this isn’t ok you need to install diodes.

    Diodes
    The circuit set up for the in dash turn signal indicator is pretty ingenious. The incandescent turn signal bulb flows electricity in both directions. When you flip on the right side signal, electricity flows through the indicator bulb from the right and goes to the non-flashing left turn signals using the signal as the ground. When you flash the left side it does the opposite. Diodes are one way valves for electricity. LED stand for light emitting diodes. When you wired in the LED turn signals you messed up the flip flop ability of the indicator system. This combined with the low power requirements of the LEDs themselves cause all kinds of issues. I do not claim to know the details of what is going on, just the basic workings and more importantly the solution.

    The solution is to wire in two small diodes into the wires that feed the in-dash turn signal indicators. The two leads originally going to the indicator bulb will each now have a small diode on it, they will be merged and feed one prong of the indicator bulb, the other lead from the bulb will go to ground. You can either ground to the frame (making sure it is a good ground not a painted surface) or you can connect it to the multiply grounding wires that already exist in your instrument cluster. For the DR I used the B/W wire off the Hi beam indicator.

    This kit comes with two diodes soldered to wire leads merged two to one (so you don’t get confused the direction) and heat shrink wrapped. The exposed ends are already pre dabbed in solder and ready to wire up. An extra length of wire is also provided for the ground side.

    Diodes are easily available at Radio Shack for pretty cheap if you want to do it yourself. I originally was not planning to offer a diode kit, but figured one would be pissed if they bought a no load relay and still couldn’t get their turn signal system working. An alternative solution to the dash indicator problem is to use two LEDs in place of the stock incandescent bulb. Since LEDs are in fact diodes they can provide the one-way function needed. You need two LEDs to serve both right and left sides. I personally have never done this method as physically mounting the two LEDs into the small indicator bulb socket can pose a problem.


    So why not just wire in resistors to the LED turn signals? I thought this would have been a good solution and many do. However I don’t think it is the best solution for LED turns signals, for the following reasons (in order of significance to me):
    -Wrong resistance. The kits often provide the wrong resistance either blinking too fast or slow or not blinking at all, thus requiring a no load flasher anyways.
    -Cost unless you really know your electronics the resistance kits is a more costly solution. I do not know if they cure the dash indicator problem.
    - More stuff/heavier. I wouldn’t want to wire in a larger resistor into ALL FOUR signals. The ones I have seen are about 2 inches long each!
    -Heat and energy. If you are using LEDs to free up some watts, you do not get any saving using resistors. Seems silly to wire in four items whose sole purpose is to get hot. And they get hot. Resistors are very small and light but since they get so hot they are packaged in little aluminum tubes with cooling fins on them.

    The dimensions of the no load relay is approximately 1.25x1x1.5”. This is the box itself without the little mounting tab. The electronics themselves are even smaller. If you wanted to you could open up the case and mount just the guts somewhere. The no load relay weighs a mere ½ ounce. The stock Suzuki relay is about 7/8x1.25x1.5” and weighs 1.25 ounces.

    Beeper Relays
    During my testing (really just buying a bunch of relays and seeing which worked) phase, I came across a version of this relay that beeped. I did not know that it has this feature. After installing the relay I turn on the turn signal and to my surprise I was greeted with a loud beeping. I immediately opened up the case and cut the wires to the beeper. In hindsight, this could be a nice feature. The sole purpose of turn signals is to alert others. Why not add another sense, hearing, to this process. A second added bonus to this feature is as an indicator. There will be no forgetting to turn off your turn signals. Even with a dash indicator, I often forget to turn off my turn signals after a intersection.


    Returns. If this was e-bay I would say no returns. But since this is ADVRider and I feel that you are all in some way my brother (or sister) from a different mother, it seems I should be more flexible. I will test each relay and insure they work before I send them out. However by the time I pay for shipping, shipping materials, and Paypal cut, I am making very little on each deal. If you feel that you really need to return an item: ship it back to me (you pay), and I will refund you the cost minus the expenses I have incurred.

    I use to stock a 3 prong (B,L,E) no load relay that I mistakenly purchased. I really have no experience with these and they do NOT work with a 2 prong system. Someone bought this relay and I decided not to stock them anymore. One request in 4 months is not worth it. However if you really need or want one PM me I will see what I can find.


    All shipping is to the lower 48. Contact me and I can find out what it would take to mail this part elsewhere. I have to ship it as a package and not a letter since it exceeds the .75” thickness. I can not promise anything on shipping times but I will try to get the product in the mail within 24 hours (weekday hours) of receiving payment.

    Tracking-I have shipped out a couple of these now and know the ins and outs of the US Postal Service. I am shipping these out 1st class letter package. I do so by slapping the appropriate number of stamps on them and dropping it off in a mail box. If you want tracking I must head into the PO and stand and line and get a tracking slip. The charge for the tracking slip is $1. I do not want to "nickle and dime" ya'll, but I feel that since this is taking my time to do you, it would only be fair if you at least paid for the service.

    Please bear with me, this is the first time I have tried to sell multiply items in Vendors.
    #1
  2. veriest1

    veriest1 Grand NOOBlet

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    PM sent!

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    #2
  3. mwilliamshs

    mwilliamshs Been here awhile

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    So it's $8 for the no-load flasher relay, including shipping to the 48 contiguous United States and it's also $8 (including shipping) for the diode kit as well? Is there a package deal price if you take both?
    #3
  4. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Inventory problem. Sometimes I have a shortage of the regular relays and only have the beeper relays in stock. If this happens one of two things can happen. If we are in good (quick) communication I might ask you what you would like. I can either silence the beeper or send it to you with a functioning beeper so that you can try it out and silence it yourself if you do not like the noise. If I am already to ship it out, or do not hear back from you, I might just silence the beeper from the relay and ship it out. I of course would not charge you the extra dollar for the beeper relay if this happens. The two relays are identical and the weight of the beeper is not measurable on my postal scale (assume a couple of grams). 5/14/2014

    Shipping times. I mail these puppies out USPS Priority 2-day. So if you sent me payment today (monday) you will get it no later than Wednesday. In some cases, if I can get it out in the morning pick up, you might be able to get in on Tuesday is you are in the "west". 5/12/2014

    Do I need diodes? This question comes up all the time, and has been debated. So I will try to clarify and share what I know. Almost all bikes that use this type of relay will require diodes if you would like to keep the function of the dash board indicator light. You can remove the dash indicator bulb and the LED turn signals will work without diodes. A customer, replaced the incandescent indicator bulb with an LED one and the system was partially functional. By this I mean that the LED turn signals all flashed properly, however the dash indicator would only light up for one side. Another special case I heard that will allow everything to work without diodes is if LED turn signals are installed on the rear only. I have not confirmed this. I guess what is happening is that the incandescent front turn signals are close enough to the dash indicator light that they serve the ground function without effecting the LED in the rear. When in doubt however you can just get the relay. If it does not work yank the indicator bulb and order the diodes later to get the dash indicator to work. 5/7/2014

    A very common 2 prong (B,L) type turn signal relay looks like this (DR650, wr250r, KTM).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The relays I sell will work for this type of relay. You will just have to by pass the connector (cut off) and wire directly in. It is best to crimp or solder female spade terminals to attache to the relay. I have melted my share of electronics soldering wires directly to the prongs. One can also make a pig tail like this. I am told that this is a "Mitsubishi" connector. Typically a three prong, however in this application only two of the prongs are used.
    [​IMG]


    A DR200 is a directly plug and play installation.


    3/31/2014Update:
    Here is a picture of the guts of a beeper relay. If you have bought one of these and the beeping is too annoying, one can easily silence the unit, by cutting the red and black wires that lead to the actual beeper. I would recommend cutting out the entire length of the two wires so that they do not bounce around and short out the circuit board. If there is a chance that you might want to reconnect the beeper, make sure the cut ends of the wires are insulated and secure.
    [​IMG]

    I have a confirmed installation on a KTM 950ADV. Need to wire it in yourself as the stock connector does not fit.


    I will be using this post as a follow up page to the first, as it is easier to edit.

    Here is a picture showing the installation for the diodes. I "barrowed" this pic from inmate Thump. With the diode kit you would just need to cut and connect wires and not have to worry about soldering and insulating the diodes.
    [​IMG]

    I am working on a list of plug and play bikes that these relays work on.
    So far is seems that the DR350/250 and 200s are.
    The DR650 uses a slightly different type of 2 prong. It will probably work but the plugs are different. One would either need to cut and solder or use female spade type connects
    The DRZ400 uses a big old turn signal relay that includes the side stand safety relay. Not sure how one would get this to work with a DRZ. V-storms use the same DRZ relay.

    Honda xr600l seem to use a relay that looks exactly like the one I have. A bunch of other Honda DS bikes seems to use to same kind as well.
    I have a confirmed installation on a 93 xr650l. What I have been told is that the relay is the same. The rubber sleeve that I supply is not the same as OEM. The OEM rubber sleeve offset the bike side mounting tab and the relay mounting tab 90 degrees from each other. The ones I supply has the two sleeves 180 or 0 apart. Either reuse the OEM one or mount the new relay 90 degrees from stock. This will not hurt the relay.

    KLRs seem to also use this type of relay.

    I think the key to capability for these relay is physically locate your existing turn signal relay. If it looks like the one I am selling it will work. Seems like this type of relay with the little mounting tab is the most common among older or lower tech Japanese bikes.
    #4
  5. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Package sent!
    Should note: if anyone wants web tracking it will be an extra dollar!
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  6. veriest1

    veriest1 Grand NOOBlet

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    Received mine and installed it today.

    As promised it mounts in the stock location on my DR350 and controls every blinker with no worrying about wiring in different diodes and stuff. I'd have gladly paid a few bucks more just to save myself the hassle of doing the research to find the plug and play solution.

    [​IMG]

    It works!

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my HTC using magic.
    #6
  7. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Glad you got it all working. You plan on making a custom dash. No diode needed cause you have your insturment cluster disconnected. Are you planning on installing a dash turn singal indicator.

    Read here for more diode and dash indicator talk.
    #7
  8. veriest1

    veriest1 Grand NOOBlet

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    I may. I plan to put a neutral indicator in at the least. The back of my turn signals are amber and visible when riding. That may be all the indicator I need. If I do rig indicators I'll put a couple of amber led's in the top corners of the dash.

    Here's what I have so far but I keep taking it back apart and making little changes.

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my HTC using magic.
    #8
  9. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Dropped a couple of packages in the mail just now.
    Bender expect your relay and diodes by Friday
    Canuman expect your relay by Friday

    And I need to figure out a way to edit the first page. Get rid of that horrible hard to read BRIGHT WHITE
    #9
  10. Greg Bender

    Greg Bender Long timer

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    Hey MrPulldown,

    Your package arrived today and the contents look great! First rate. I can't wait to get them both installed. Thank you very much!

    Regards,

    Gregory Bender
    #10
  11. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    <EMBED type=application/x-shockwave-flash src=http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v473/veriest1/VIDEO0013_zps4f94142c.mp4>
    I got Veriest1's video embed. This shows the rate of flash. I was slightly concerned about this when I first purchased these relays. Some relays flash at a super fast annoying rate. The sound you hear in the back ground is not the flasher relay. This relay is silent unlike the OEM one that clicks. I did have a flasher relay that beeps really loud when you activate it. I had snipped the wires to the beeper so that it is quite. However in hindsight I think that the beep might be a nice feature. One it acts as a indictor; even if you have a dash indictor you are not always looking down at it. And second it draws attention. The only reason you have turn signals (other than being legal) is that you WANT people to know that you are turning. An extra audio notification might be nice.

    Let me know if there is an interest for a beeping flasher relay, and I will see if I can stock.

    Mr. Bender, you are very welcome.
    </EMBED>
    #11
  12. veriest1

    veriest1 Grand NOOBlet

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    The sound in the video is a cricket that likes to hang out near my bedroom window.

    How loud of a beep on the beeping relay? Would you say it's closer to a computer diagnostics beep or a pitch fork that's backing up beep?
    #12
  13. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Oh it is pretty loud. More like a fork lift that backing up. Scared the shit out of me the first time I turned on the relay. I was in the garage late at night after the wife and kids were in bed. Of course I was trying to be all quite. My first thought was, "these gots to go". But now thinking back, it might be ok to have when you are on the open road.
    #13
  14. ZEmann

    ZEmann want to be riding

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    I kinda like the audible blinker relay

    I catch myself forgetting to cancel sometimes in bright sunlight when the indicator is hard to see
    #14
  15. Ro0K

    Ro0K Adventurer

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    PM'd
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  16. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    RoOK Package sent
    Wadster package sent yesterday

    I think that I will try to get a couple of the beeping relays. Will let you know when they are available.

    I am working on a list of plug and play bikes that these relays work on.
    So far is seems that the DR350/250 and 200s are.
    The DR650 uses a slightly different type of 2 prong. It will probably work but the plugs are different. One would either need to cut and solder or use female spade type connects
    The DRZ400 uses a big old turn signal relay that includes the side stand safety relay. Not sure how one would get this to work with a DRZ. V-storms use the same DRZ relay.

    Honda xr600l seem to use a relay that looks exactly like the one I have. A bunch of other Honda DS bikes seems to use to same kind as well.

    KLRs seem to also use this type of relay.
    #16
  17. Hotmamaandme

    Hotmamaandme Wishing I was riding RTW

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    Order placed thanks Bill
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  18. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Parts shipped this morning!
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  19. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Beeper Relays are in. They make a loud beep with each flasher of the turn signal. $9 shipped to the lower 48. $16 if paired with a diode kit. I will get a video up soon so you can hear the beep. See threads above for a description. They look identical (dimension and mounting tab) to the other relay. Just has the added beeping feature.

    I am going to run these on my bike for a while.
    #19
  20. MrPulldown

    MrPulldown Long timer

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    Delayed shipping.

    Due to Columbus Day, orders received this weekend did not go out this Tuesday morning.
    #20