No stop USA

Discussion in 'Trials' started by lineaway, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. motojunky

    motojunky Professional Idiot

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    I'm not singling you out... I've had a thought brewing for a day or two and finally have a chance to get it out. :D

    I'm curious as to how many of you who object to no-stop have actually ridden no-stop. I have been riding a modern bike in a club with no-stop rules for 2 seasons now. It's not "crashing through sections" etc. It's trials. Slow and in control with precision and balance. There are several guys who ride events in this series that ride traditional events as well. Their riding styles don't change dramatically and the sections are very similar. It isn't endurocross. You can't ride your XR650L. You still see some hopping, some turning nose wheelies, etc. - just with more finesse. I look forward to seeing how great riders adapt.

    I'm in no position to say which is better or to even have an opinion. I just think some of you are making it out to be much more of a change than it probably will be.
  2. NMTrailboss

    NMTrailboss Team Dead End

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    I will admit that my previous statement of "crashing through section" was not appropriate for the no-stop format and will also admit that I have never tried no-stop rules. I've only been riding trials shy of 9 years so all on modern rules. Just seems from the discussion here and from the riding I have done in competition that it would take much of the fun out of it for me. Of course, I could be totally wrong and it wouldn't be the first time by a long shot!! :lol3
  3. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    Could be, but if it's no big deal then why mess with the rules and go backwards and in the process throw a rule in there that will be impossible to apply consistently. We have 12 year old kids scoring upper class. They will have no idea if a rider doing a nose wheelie is actually stopped or not.

    I can't hop for shit and only use stopped balance once in a while but it pisses me off to see the sport go backwards. The top riders should be doing backflips in sections ala Pastrana for special credit by now!!

    I'm out. :wave Will wait to see how this all pans out for us guys in the new world.
  4. ridenm

    ridenm Long timer

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    My .02:

    Yup, been there. NMTA rode no-stop during the last iteration. I still remember seeing Chuck and Eric doing sweet nose-wheelies, carefully applying the front brake enough to keep it up but not enough to stop forward motion.

    The cream always rises to the top.

    But it was a bitch to score. Just like calling backwards motion now. What constitutes rolling back, and how hard-ass is appropriate for a club event, and how do you make sure it's applied fairly?

    In the past, when the topic has arisen, I have pointed out that trials is about one thing: riding a motorcycle. When you are stopped balancing (no dabs) you are still riding a motorcycle. When you are rolling backwards, you are still riding a motorcycle (like the Bou clip earlier shows).

    All this massaging of the rules in an attempt to raise attendance and participation has not, IMNSHO, improved the health of the clubs or the WTC.

    The clubs need safe, fun, inexpensive competition in accessible places. We may go overboard with the proliferation of classes for every skill level and age group, but people that get hurt, no matter how much they love the sport, don't come back--at least not without extensive rehab time. The clubs need good, effective, imaginative promotion--it's tough to ask volunteers to do all this work, but effective internal and external communication is the lifeblood of a club. Newsletters have to go out on time, and events have to be publicized in enthusiast and general outlets to the maximum allowed by club budgets. This is clearly a case of Return on Investment--the club that scrimps on advertising costs will pay later in reduced attendance.

    I don't see extreme enduro and enduro-cross as a challenge to trials but as an opportunity for cross-promotion. Its appeal to the riders is that they can actually make money--find a way for trials to similarly pay its own bills and the sport will do fine, and the riders will choose what they love doing.

    Forgive my thickness, but I fail to see how implementing a no-stop rule at the WTC level will reduce costs for the factories one iota or improve the series' competitiveness right now. The WTC needs the world economy to improve and Toni Bou to retire. As much fun as it is to watch him, he has no competition right now. He is the Mick Doohan of his time, and his effect on WTC is the same as Doohan's effect on GP roadracing.
  5. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Going back to no-stop isnt going to make a scrap of difference to the low numbers riding Brit championship series events. The main reason for low numbers is that the events are set out for maybe 6 riders, and are simply 2 hard for most of the others (even though they are riding easier sections!).

    However lack of suitable land to run events completely off road, is the main problem facing UK national trialling at the moment. Most national level events are run along the lines of several different groups of sections, which in most cases are linked by riding between them on public roads.

    The rules/legislation related to riding on public roads are currently being tightened up, and it seems very likely that riding on the road during competition events will be outlawed in the next few years.

    Seems a great shame, but not sure there is anything that will prevent this happening.............and unless suitable land can be found to run national level events completely off road, the future doesnt look that bright for UK trialling.
  6. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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    Gordy, I don't know you but I'm just trying to exchange ideas here and share my experience. Maybe we had two shocks, but we rode longer and harder than you do today with much better equipment. We did more with less. We would have ridden you into the ground.
    [​IMG]
    Bill Blythe 1974 Colorado National at the top of a 3rd gear hillclimb
    [​IMG]
    Manuel Soler 1978 Terrassa, Spain. Twin shocks no kicker
  7. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    :y0! In a couple of Twinshock events. One no stop at all, the next was the MWVTA National in Roswell last month that had a No Stop with a Foot Down rule. Both were very hard to get used to, as my Trials experience is not wired for that. I did not like it, but then again I really do suck at Trials anyway. :lol3




    Land access is now a big problem in America too. Don't let the "Public Land" byline that the BLM and the Forest Service uses fool ya, it's really not that public. :cry




    Give up, Gordy. You'll lose this one. :lol3

    Okay, I'll admit the reason I quoted this one is that I thought the pics were awesome. :thumb
  8. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    So we do get to go backwards now? It's not stopping.
  9. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    Ahhhh.......to sit back and reminence. :bubba

    The girls were prettier back then too!!

    You probably would have ridden me into the ground back then because I would have been on either a CZ, Rickman, Elsinore or some other bike that (looking back on) we rode the wheels off of and went extremely fast. At least it seems as though we did looking back 40 years. I have only been in this sport for maybe five years not counting a very brief gig in the 70s on a TL-125. (cross training for MX)

    I gotta go trials riding right now in some of our beautiful weather and country. Gonna work on my balance/set up a bunch.

    The rest of you flat earthers can practice rolling. :rofl
  10. thegraydog

    thegraydog 2 wheels X 6 ways

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    There ya go, Gordy. All this thinking makes me need to go ride.

    One more problem no one has mentioned: I'm getting an icy stare across the breakfast table when I mention "no-stop"...:lol3
  11. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    A little perspective here. I started riding riding Trials in the 90s, so I never learned to ride no stop. I've ridden a couple of AHRMA events which are scored as no stop. The way it's worked out there is that as long as the rider is trying to keep moving a five is usually not charged. So it really only prevents planned stops (which I use regularly in modern Trials since thats the way I learned) and resting in a section (which I also do). And it keeps the riders moving through the sections at a good pace.
  12. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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  13. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    My first motorcycle competition was a trials in 1973. It was no stop because bikes sucked and you couldn't stop anyway with shitty brakes and dragging clutches.:D

    Modern bikes dictate modern rules. Rules should be modified to no stop with a foot down. So it will take skill to stay stopped and eliminate the stopped with a foot down, while you try to figure out what to do next.
  14. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    We heard all of this pestilence and blight, back when we moved from no stop to stop and hop... BTW, regurgitating old movies and motorcycle rules, & Communism/socialism, is about the generation in charge now, can do!

    Lets all go watch "Total Recall" again... (I cant wait until the redo Beverly Hillbillies, like we did "Dukes of hazzard" and "Dallas" ((NOT)).

    no thanks... I guess it might be time to find another hobby.

    At this rate, if the in charge takes over Nasa we'll go back to sending Chimps into orbit, restart the Mercury Missions.
  15. PTRadam

    PTRadam Been here awhile

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    There is no way a rule change is going to boost attendance. Trials won't ever get the spectator #'s that motocross, supercross, and endurocorss have because most people are too lazy to walk the loop and watch each section. It's much easier to sit in a seat and watch guys hit tripple jumps while you drink a beer and have a hot dog. Sorry, that's the truth.
  16. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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    Increased attendance is not the stated goal.

    Did you read the FIM Press Release?
  17. caryder

    caryder Been here awhile

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    Okay... It shows there is ignorance with respect to cause and effect. The cause is the economy, not the formula. Sales and participation are down... period. Even at the local level our attendance at times has been down 40% the last two years. When it gets hard to spend $70 in fuel and $25 in entry fees once a month for some folks, it's not because of the rules.

    So, do you feel a change in rules will get some guy to spend money he doesn't have? The same concept applies at the macro level.

    It's okay if you don't agree with me. I still think its a lack of understanding or acknowledgment regarding the economic situation so organizations just start turning knobs they are familiar with because it feels better than doing nothing at all. But they're turning the wrong knob. The knobs that need turning aren't even in their control room.


    Chuck
  18. caryder

    caryder Been here awhile

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    What do you think pays the bills? See what I mean about ignorance? Can't see the forest for the trees. Attendance is required to make it affordable for teams and participants. Attendance turns into bike sales. It's simple economics.

    MotoGP is floundering too. So they come up with the CRT rule to try to reduce team costs and increase the grid. It's a disaster, but hey, knobs are being turned like crazy. Why isn't it working? Because we want to see aliens ride factory machines, not machines that get lapped by the 10 factory bikes and are 3 to 4 seconds off the pace. That formula works in moto 3 and 2 because the grid is filled with near equal bikes, and its exciting racing, but... everyone really pays the big bucks to watch the aliens ride factory machines. The other two classes are alien training camps.


    Chuck
  19. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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    As for Moto GP comparisons, its the biggest world audience on the planet for motorcycle racing, broadcast to over 100 countries LIVE and only 3 factories can afford to field teams. ..... All the smart manufacturers are in World Superbike. Why ? Costs are lower and it translates better into bike sales. Bingo.
  20. nwcycle

    nwcycle Long timer

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