No stop USA

Discussion in 'Trials' started by lineaway, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    The main reason trials riding is becoming less and less popular, is that most modern bikes are expensive and shoddily made, and are capable of performing far far better than about 80% of riders. For most riders its a bit like someone in their 70s getting an F1 car to do the weekly shopping. Here in the UK at least, this is the main reason riding TS or P65 is getting so popular now.
  2. PTRadam

    PTRadam Been here awhile

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    Yeah, I read it. By going to no-stop they are going to fix all of this stuff.

    <TABLE dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7 width=568><TBODY><TR><TD height=10 vAlign=top>With the aim of making Trial more accessible, reducing the level of the sections, creating more dynamism, reducing the costs and increasing practice and participation, additional measures will be taken in the coming months.
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    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Yeah right. The only way to get more people to ride is to get more people to watch. Then, a small % of the people that go watch will want to ride. Thus going out and buying a bike and participating. I've put on alot of trials and set alot of sections and I always make it a point to talk to some of the spectators. They are always more impressed by the expert/pro riders hopping around and setting up for big obstacles than any other aspect of the trials. Besides, the same guys that are winning now will win if we go to no-stop. Doesn't really matter to them. They're the top dogs b/c they learn to do the hard moves.
  3. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    I watch MotoGP and am planning on going to watch the race in Austin this year.
    I've never watched a WSB. :dunno
    I'm planning on catching at least one and maybe two SX races this year.

    Thats a lot of tourist dollars that I will have to pony up. :cry

    The world round in Tennessee moved to the bottom of my list and I probably won't go. Suck it FIM. Sorry TTC.
    See, I am a trials enthusiast but when I told my wife that there would be no set-ups and the stuff wouldn't be as big based on no stop rules, she rolled her eyes and said "forget it!".
    If they think attendance us bad now, just wait until they make the sport more boring for the spectators. :snore

    Beta is paying Cody Webb a rumored $200K/year and that isn't about no stop. They want to sell trail bikes from his EnduroCross results. They can afford a freaking minder at a few world events. I can't imagine that being a position that is too highly compensated. It is probably their trainer that is on all year anyway.
    Maybe they could turn the tires around at every other event to save another hun or two.

    This elected Bill Clinton: It's the economy stupid.
    I'm probably wrong, but making something more boring to watch (and ride) doesn't seem like it will help.

    BTW
    While riding yesterday, I had big fun stopping in sections and working on stationary set-up. I think I'll let them do whatever they want with the rules. I'll show up and ride the way I want and they can punch 5s all day. Problem solved! :lol3
  4. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    Not everyone. I would much rather watch skilled riders on equipment that I can relate to my own motorcycles anyday.
  5. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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    Sorry you feel that way Gordy. You're entitled to your opinion.

    I'll be there. It's gonna be a great event. It's been 5 years since we've had a US World Round and I don't want to miss it. I know that for it to be successful it will need the support of the entire US trials community. The owner of the TTC Dan Brown and his crew are putting a lot on the line to make it happen and I want to support the sport.

    I will let Kip and Cody about the $200 grand/year rumor, they will get a kick out of that. I went to the TdN with them last month where Cody kicked ass. Individual scores are not kept or even spoken about much at TdN but we know that Cody had a single digit score. He tore up those sections and except for a few set ups he rode it all no stop.
  6. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    With any luck at all, I'll see you there. I'll be easy to spot, as I'll be the one trying to get as much Montesa swag as possible. :lol3
  7. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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  8. neilking

    neilking Been here awhile

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  9. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    We have a new scoring Nazi! I really watched the second one and he kept a nice flow the whole time. I would give up the ability to stop, to see the rider with no ablity lose the all day dab! Bring back the proper point spread in trials and see who is a rider and who used the rules to mask his flaws.:D
    Bottom line , more dabs and ten times the fives for those riding the wrong class! Bring it on.
  10. caryder

    caryder Been here awhile

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    Context means everything. The people that pay to go see MotoGP (like me) pay for the main event. It's not to say the support events aren't good, but the money is spent to see the best of the best on exotic machinery. I also like SBK and AMA racing because as you said, I appreciate the skill. But to relate back to trials, I would pay to watch Toni Bou and Adam Raga do things I can't do. If I want to watch skilled guys ride bikes I have access to I go to local events and pay an entry fee and ride in the morning and check in the afternoon.


    Chuck
  11. LowPSI

    LowPSI Been here awhile

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    Proof you shouldn't believe everything you read. Her report on TdN is not accurate and it bothers me. It sounds like she didn't even leave the pits. It does not do justice to the amazing organization by the Swiss club and the town of Moutier.

    Read my report on the TdN in the latest Trials and Enduro news. I love telling this story. It was world class organization.The best I've seen in 40 years of going to World Trials. It was everything a trials should be. It was an event organized by and for the City of Moutier and the Swiss MC Federation. Spectators were everywhere and they were catered to. Shuttle buses got them to the section groups so fast there where there before us and able to follow the whole event. At each section group there were huge tents with tables, chairs and big screen TV's with up to minute section scoring. More importantly they were serving cold beer and hot food. Each section had a huge digital display that showed the riders time and score. The checkers had remotes and as the rider dabbed the score changed instantly and the clock counted down. At one hill climb section they built a real wooden 150' staircase that allowed people to see the whole section.

    The Paddock area was unreal. It was huge 2 story convention center in the middle of town. Down stairs were the pits, showers and meeting rooms....A good size practice area just outside with big logs and rocks. Spectators could watch practice. There were 3 sections just outside next to the center and the distance form the beer and sausages vendor was maybe 50'. There were tables and umbrellas there too. Upstairs the convention center was another world. In a word "atmosphere" The final 2 sections were indoors, bleachers for spectators, huge stage, professional sound and lighting, they had the announcer from the Indoors there, a VIP beer garden for sponsors, dozens of vendors, S3, Clice, Montesa, Sherco, GasGas local trials dealers etc...Motorex Oil and Monster Energy were the main sponsors....there was a bicycle trials demo area and all under one roof.....and food, very good food, In the morning omelets, fresh croissants, espresso, pastries. later in the day roast ham and olive oil french fries and cold beer. After the awards ceremony they served complementary local wine and cheese and meats to everyone. The air in that place was a mix of exhaust and french fries...It was heaven.
  12. PTRadam

    PTRadam Been here awhile

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    ^^ I sat and read that article last night! ^^

    Good write up. I remember thinking "we have a long way to go in the American Trials scene before we're anyway near that level."
  13. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

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    What about the 1st video? He "probably" stopped a couple of times, didn't he? Is he proclaiming these video's are strictly no stop? I "think" he stopped at the top of the rock a couple of times. I definitely would not have given him a 5 for the 2nd video. Scoring issues are one of the biggest detractors of no stop for me. I don't go to or put on a trials to argue with people. Something needs to be addressed there to make this less subjective and take the pressure off the club observers and improve scoring consistency.

    At 1st, I thought the British were nuts for going to both stop and no stop for 2013. Now, I think that they may just be on to something there. Maybe that is the best way to attract all the possible riders to the sport - pick your poison. The clubs who have access to SSDT type terrain can run no stop and the clubs that don't can run a Modern event in a wide variety of smaller venues. It will be interesting to see the resulting numbers from both.

    I know I have a definite preference for the simple stop allowed with a 90 second time limit style event, but would have to say that ANY very well run (and well laid out sections) trials would be OK with me. It boils down to the fact that I would rather have more choices than fewer.
  14. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    laser, that's my main beef. :nod. We can't seem to set an event at any kind of a consistent level and we have kids scoring the afternoon Little kids with zero scoring experience. If we are lucky, we get a non-riding wife out there to help.
    Until we can set a trials where a rider has an idea of what he will be up against our club participation will continue to dwindle.
    No one wants to ride a good event, then show up at the next one and have riders from higher classes moving down because of the danger. Or worse, have some lower class riders do well at one event and then be physically reduced to tears at the next (while requiring spotters in Amature). :huh
    Or how about guys traveling from out of state to compete only to find that ther class has a few local sand-baggers who have no business being in that class ther than chasing a fukking year end jacket. Just think what it would do to send that guy back home on his 200 mile drive with a medal (or knowing that he had a chance).
    I'm a glutton for punishment and keep coming back-fun or no fun. New riders and young kids will not and have not. I know of what I speak. I have a daughter that is a natural athlete and went from sport to sport growing up. She excelled at all of them but the minute it became no fun, she quit and went to a new one. We can't afford to lose even one new rider in our club.
    No stop and the recent can't touch the gate rules will only complicate the scoring and make the riding "appear" lamer.

    ...........and.......we have the current #2 woman rider in the nation riding with us. She rode the TdN and I'm sure is going back next year. Are we (as a club) not helping her if we don't set no-stop thus year and she has no time at it before the nex TdN. She is already riding differnt rules at nationals compared to us-the gate rule This is a good example of what not having consistent rules throughout the sport can do. What a mess.
  15. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    I now have mixed feelings going no stop. I was all for change since it elliminated the all day dab. The all day dab was the dumbest rule that this sport ever came up with. Since joe blow really can`t ride well(though in his own mind he does} we`ll let him stop reposition his bike(so he does not make a fool of himself and get hurt) rest and then continue on wth just a dab? Crazy!
    My son is going to move up to the Expert class for next season. Last weekend he rode expert just to test the waters and he did well as far as attempting all the obstacles.(He did clean his very first section). But his strong points are he is an exellent hopper. And so I can see he will be one of the one`s hurt by the rule change!:huh
  16. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    Don't worry Bob, there will be a pre-teen kid texting on his cell phone scoring him. Garrett can tell him to punch whatever he wants. :lol3
  17. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    As always, the rider gets the benefit of the doubt. If you "think" he "probably"stopped you don't charge the rider for it.
  18. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

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    100% agree - Just like baseball. Tie goes to the runner. My point is its very subjective and will lead to arguments. Maybe technology can help out - yet that has flaws too. See Moto GP.
  19. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    There will always be a big difference between local events and top level events. Imagine a pro MXer who only trained for 15 minute motos since that what is run at the local track.
    Back in the late 90s (as I recall), when the U.S. nationals were run no stop, the local pros started riding local events no stop regardless of how they were scored. The only real change would be that the Champ sections would be designed so that could be attempted as no stop sections.
  20. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

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    Gordy - Along those lines, I belong to a good sized M/C club who's main membership is very diverse. The club is all about supporting a wide range of events from Peewee hair scrambles to Moto Geezer to Trials events with a heavy emphasis on family events (family funs days ect..) . Our yearly Trials event is very well attended (70 - 80 riders - mostly novice class). We have separate sections and loops for Youth, Novice & Experts. All club checked - most of whom don't ride trials yet most have several years of checking experience now. We usually have a semi-stadium section in the parking lot as well that requires heavy equipment support owned by a local member. (Everyone loves that) The Trials riders in the club do all the section prep, and yet we have a really hard time with section consistency just among our small group! For instance, I will design an intermediate section that's easy for me (I laid it out - so I like it) and the next rider will come along and say - wow thats way too hard. Then I go to his section that he likes and I say - what are you trying to do, kill folks? We even employ a method of standards that helps - but isn't the end all solution, especially when the sections break down and uncover alot of roots ect that weren't there at 1st. We have a reputation for safe but high scoring events (you better know how to turn as a novice) My point is - fun, consistent events are tough to hold. As you probably know, they take alot of work. And even then, its not always perfect. The more fun we can make it for the riders, the better the club feels about the event, They want to please people and feel good about supporting the discipline of Trials. We vote every year on what events to sanction and so far, its always been (6 years running now) an easy sell for 1 trials per year. I worry that No stop will stress our club members out and they will vote for another type of event where they get positive feedback. Even now, the club feedback we get is for us to design easier sections so fewer people struggle and bitch. Its not easy pleasing everyone.