No stop USA

Discussion in 'Trials' started by lineaway, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    BY the way, & again, you dont know jack. I have been online long before there was such a thing as a "web browser" let alone pictures in them (you probably just call it internet, if you Barely know anything you probably know if you use IE, Firefox, chrome, or what else.) this was before Mosaic, and the Netscape days too by the way... look it up, just like rotory phones, it did exist... before you noticed it. Usnet, and before that bulliten boards. I still recall that 1st time with the "new" 9600 baud modem, thinking, wow that is fast!

    !wq
    #81
  2. motojunky

    motojunky Professional Idiot

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    Seems like this thread needs to switch to decaf...

    I have a small downhill log in my yard that I set up to attempt to overcome my *issues* with downhill logs. I noticed the other day that if I stop before placing the front wheel on the log that it is a LOT easier than doing it "no-stop." Entirely psychological (I'm a wimp), but very real for me.

    I'm not sure what that means, really. Seems to me that if no-stop makes it harder, a smaller log can be as challenging as a larger one that I'd have to stop for. Not really sure if it's enough of a difference to say that one is safer than the other, but on the whole, I get the logic behind no stop allowing for smaller obstacles. Without set up time and/or the ability to place your bike perfectly, smaller and safer stuff is equally challenging. I get that appeal re: no-stop.

    Another example: While practicing with a bunch of riders (all better than me) a couple of weeks ago, we were attempting a small uphill, sharp turn, up a rooty climb little section. After several attempts, I was able to clean it, but I stopped (balancing) several times. I couldn't seem to do it without stopping.

    I pointed out earlier that I have only ridden no-stop so far so I don't have a lot to go on. That said, the more I think about it and practice, I find that I do enjoy being able to stop. But I still think that stopped with a foot on the ground should be a 5. That is, IMO, not riding. Even worse to me is repositioning the bike with a foot on the ground. But then I don't know anything about how or why rules have evolved to be what they are today. I just know what seems logical to me as a 1-season trials newb.
    #82
  3. NMTrailboss

    NMTrailboss Team Dead End

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    :lurk
    #83
  4. neilking

    neilking Been here awhile

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    Stopping before lifting the front tire helps preload the front suspension. That helps popping the front tire on top of the log and not gaining too much speed going down hill.
    #84
  5. neilking

    neilking Been here awhile

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    As for the off camber turn... Those are actually easier to do with a little momentum as long as your body position transitions are done correctly. Stopping helps give you a little more time to make the transitions that are needed.
    #85
  6. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    I bet you just loved WANG when the 2200 came out. Some how this whole subject has tweaked your brain. What makes you think LOWPSI and myself have not put in the hours. That for some reason you think that only you have. I only brought up this subject since the British were having problems with there own series. You act as though you made up the current set of rules. You didn`t,and I have always thought they sucked. Not because I could not adapt to new riding styles, and ask any one I always liked competition. But being able to dab for a safety issue, instead of taking the damn 5 cuz you cannot keep up with the big boys. The current rules were made for the GIRLS. That is the true comparison that you have been trying to hide behind.:huh
    #86
  7. 10K

    10K Trail Runner

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    :scratch
    #87
  8. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    Hey! Im not writing a novel, I dont have the skills or desire to write in perfect grammer, or "Harry Potter" narritive style... If I did I'd write books and leave this crap for the rest of you :puke1.

    I type more or less like we'd talk in a little group around the firepit, and apparently you read what I type as if I am screaming from some pulpit, and sorry that is your problem. That part is in your brain, when in fact I am not. I know it is a problem that I will/can come off that way, in fact that is more your problem than mine, as I cant help how you read everything as a personal attack... and it is a risk, yet at the time I either sit on my hands, and not participate in the discussion, OR you bear with me, put in just a little thought on what I am trying to convey, instead of nit picking that I was a sailor and the f word & others come out a lot, and I have to edit before posting, sorry... and that except the attack by YOU LINEAWAY, as if I lied about being on the "internet" since the mid-late 80's, due to smarter geekier people for sure, is totally called for defendable part. Trying to get anyone else to read his post to dismiss me as some crack pot that would say anything, that was a low, backhanded comment, that is all you meant and aimed for.

    I can say I have more to say on this whole issue, and I can just quit posting, since all you think I want to do is run other people down or off. (when I post and type YOU, this doesn't just mean JUST YOU lineaway, I feel others will read this post, if I didnt, I would fucking email you instead, get it? Again think about it, if possible. If I want to scream and bitch just at you, LowPsi et al, I think email would be the route, not forums. My goal was to let others who read this stand, hear from the other, seemingly silent, side.

    So, when you read the posts, especially where I said non thinking, and or stupid, I dont think LOWPSI is stupid, I think his idea might be, maybe, I didnt post just to be opposite of what he said/typed.

    It because I dont think people think past "it would be so much better if those guys couldnt stop and hop" for themselves... I first say "why?" it affects no more than 3 "actively posting individuals, here at advrider's trial baord... most of you are barely novice or amature, only 3 I seen so far even let anyone know what class they are in, which is again a problem but whatever, I still dont think that there but 3 that are above support or support+AGE classes if they bother to goto a nationals, and NOT SANDBAG. along with my frieneds on here, most of these guys that do travel or attend a nearby national, most on here (ADV) get their asses handed to them in the new clubman line, and kind of me as well, but really I get mine handed to me in Support 45 class. So that is the perspective, or the where I came from, when I started this, as you (not just you lineaway) put it, whole shouting match...

    When IMHO I dont think you or they really think about it from a "Sports perspective" and that 8 of 10 no stop supporters seem to just want to go trail riding... which is fine, and still the point is, if you aren't into TRIALS to beat the course, have fun competing against other like minded and capable individuals, then dont bitch about it. <<< ok that will be taken wrong, I mean yeah bitch all you want ti guess, I just think you should be ready to have people bitch back when you do>>> For the rest of us, We like to learn something new, try new things, stopping and hopping is just more skills we have the bag, to beat the sections, beat you, win. We improve and practice all the time, every couple days, we ride, my dad rides an hour or so EVERY friggin day, he's 76 and he's forgotten more about trials than most. So, if this sport isn't what you aim for, then why do you think you should even presume you should have a say in where trials will be? It is like going to Burger King, telling them you wish like hell they sold bratwurst and corndogs, then thinking you have more than a right to think that way. I say it again, you want bratwurst, goto to freaking wienersnitchels or some shit. if you want a burger Im sure BK would appreciate your business and you are always welcome, within reason of course.

    Same with trials, the damn sport is where it is, for what it is, and you are more than welcome to fking join those of us that participate and put these events on, and all that.

    and again I cant help if you think that is putting you down, or anyone else down, or what not, it is a general statement, like please don't use this 110v appliance in the shower, at least to me.
    #88
  9. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    Just a quick reply for the record.

    Lineaway can ride! :nod
    He can ride it "old school" no stop or hop bounce and nose wheelie with all but the few champ class riders in our club. :nod
    I've seen him to be the only one to no stop a tight box that everyone else HAD to hop to get through. :nod

    Just some perspective for the debate........ and I still think No Stop is ridiculous and if ever implemented, I would probably find something else to do with my weekends.

    Carry on. :rofl
    #89
  10. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Hi Mitch, I`m Bob R. Way to go on the win in the central r. series last year. You are correct that this should be an open discussion, instead of a private email.So now we are around the fire in good company,usually you probably have Dale M. David B and of course Rick L. all good riders, all common friends.
    A little history of myself, first ute cup 1974, first national 1975 New York. Last national win was 2004 rd 3 at colorado. Why that win was important to me was I just bought a bike from Brian Behling 3 weeks prior , had been out 18 months to recover from knee surgery. Was 3rd for the day in support overall. Best feeling in the world after a dry spell of no riding.
    I understand why you dislike the idea of `going back`. I also have always hated this foot down all day long. Going back seems to me the easiest way of removing this dreaded rule change. Now if the all day dab was corrected to a 3 it would come close to correcting the point spread. But to do so would put it back to the scorer again. So anything to keep the rules simple to understand to someone trying to score is a step better.
    So I`m not some old geezer lookin` to go back to the good ole days. I want to see some points out of the bike draggers. Have you any good ideas on this. Also changeing this rule would help speed up time in the sections. Nothing I hate more is being in the `zone` and come around a corner to a 45 minute bottleneck.
    That`s my whole gripe on the current rules. Please let us hear your thoughts, or I`m just loco.
    P.S. When is the 2012 CRS schedule coming out or do you know it already? I might just come ride!:freaky
    #90
  11. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    First let me state, for the record.

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a proponent of no stop rules for Observed Trials competition in these United States of America.

    I started riding Trials in the mid 90s. I learned to ride stopping with a planted foot, moving the bike around my foot, looking for a way out of the spot I've gotten myself into, and sometimes just resting to catch my breath. Thats how most, if not all, the riders in my club ride. I never really thought about it until recently. Now that I think about it, it seems lame. I'd like to see the rules modified to minimize stopping and sitting in a section while still allowing stop and hop riding techniques. Such rules would probably move me down a class (along with many of the riders in my club), which wouldn't matter to me as I wouldn't be in either the highest, or lowest, class either way.
    I suppose the time limits used in the nationals are the best solution I've seen. I'm wondering how it could be adressed at local club events, where time limits in the sections are impractical.
    And it seems to me that if I'm allowed to stop and move my bike sideways with my foot down, I shouldn't be penalized if I wipe the sweat out of my eyes with my hand.
    #91
  12. AteamNM

    AteamNM Wonna Be ADVrider

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    This thread will self destruct in 10, 9, 8, 7...........seconds.

    Lineaway has set a trials every year that I have rode in the NMTA, +15 years. Bob has schooled many people on riding no stop, hopty hop, nose wheelie through a turn or blast a 8 foot wall. In my not so humble opinion, Lineaway has contributed more to the observed trials world than 90% of the folks I know.

    I don't like internet bullies, especially here on ADV. Opinions are like AH's, every one has one so ease up and please play well with others. Geez, I ride for fun, not even competitive really since it is man against the course. I think we do need to make minor changes and hate the guys who sit in a section for 3 minutes looking at the next obstacle. I remember back in the mid 80's when Billy (it was a three) Trainer from Ireland would hop and hop and hop, then finally after he is ready and done hopping - DAB.

    Not a fan of the foot down for a long period of time but also do not want a novice rider speculating on did he stop or not. My suggestion is our cheap ass club buy stop watches and enforce a 1 minute and 30 second time limit, That will reduce a lot of stop and pause and keep the sections moving.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

    Life is a trial. :norton
    #92
  13. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    If that happens, both MooMoo and I would start losing a bunch more events......... :lol3
    #93
  14. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    :nono

    Fore the upcoming year, I am going to find an obscure class with only a few riders in it (maybe Champ :scratch) and frikkin drag my bike through every damn section for the podium.
    Just imagine, Gordy getting a third place with 72 points in CHAMP!!!! :clap
    #94
  15. NMTrailboss

    NMTrailboss Team Dead End

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    :nono
    5 points x 24 sections = 120 points for you in Champ class! :deal Probably still 3rd place though! :lol3
    #95
  16. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    Yer right. I probably couldn't drag my bike through some of their sections on a three. :rofl

    Something does has to be done about the guys who paddle, drag, slide and everything but ride a bike through sections though. I've seen guys with both feet out literally doing a smokey burnout on an 8" ledge for what seems like an eternity. :rolleyes Trials riding, my ass!!
    Hopefully, if we get the class structures right, riders will find themselves in the appropriate class and not have to resort to dragging a bike through a section to save two points. :baldy
    #96
  17. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    I was cleaning off my rear tire. :fitz
    #97
  18. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

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    :rofl

    Just getting primed for the hard part of the section! :freaky
    #98
  19. grizzzly

    grizzzly The Pre-Banned Version

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    lets see how this pans out next year

    just saying
    #99
  20. Doctor Zed

    Doctor Zed Resident

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    Well we got our first real snowfall yesterday here in Wisconsin.
    It's been a slow start to winter, especially since I have my KTM all properly set-up for ice riding.

    So with all the snow on the backyard trials course and everything being mega slippery,
    I ended up practicing slow speed turns and such in the driveway.
    It seems like some day are real good balance days and others not so much.
    Well yesterday I did my first small front wheel hops. Not just one either.
    I was completely stopped and tried hopping the front wheel. BAM it moved over a few inches!
    I was able to do 5,6 maybe 7 little hops all in a row!
    Even though I was stopped and "not riding the bike" anymore, it was super fun and felt really rewarding.

    I hope that they don't change to no stop, this new skill will really give me an advantage in the Novice class next year.:wink: