NORRA Mexican 1000 - 2013 Rules / Updates

Discussion in 'Racing' started by Anders Green, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. johnson357

    johnson357 Bad Monkey Racing

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    Easy NORRA hires me to ride Baja all year and make sure non of these cheathers are pre-running :evil
    #41
  2. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    I think ALL pre running and Air support should be BANNED!! at ALL OFF ROAD RACES!

    and YES it can be done!
    #42
  3. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    :lol3 Yea, sign me up for that!
    #43
  4. oregoncoast

    oregoncoast Racing Like a Noob

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    Duh!
    Perhaps the new SCORE will see the benefits of a multi-day rally and do one of their own for the pro guys and all of you all-out fast guys on modern bikes and trophy trucks that want a mini-Dakar and all that goes with it.

    Roadracer - the reason to run a vintage bike or car has nothing to do with costs or wanting to win. It's about celebrating and reliving the past of off-road racing. That is why the M1K is going through a transformation which just may end the vintage and pure "fun" aspect that was its initial intention. Because the more trophy trucks that enter, the more the course is going to look like the Baja 1K course, and the vintage bikes and cars just can't do the 4-foot whoops.

    I see more and more people resurrecting vintage cars to run specifically in this race, but as the number of modern entrants increase, if care is not take to preserve the vintage aspect, it will become simply a multi-day Baja 1000. And that would probably be a very popular route and NORRA might just see the numbers grow. But at what cost??

    Running a vintage vehicle in a multi-day, 1200 mile race, and just finishing is a challenge and huge accomplishment in itself. It becomes more about keeping the vehicle moving forward and still making some decent time. This is just a totally different experience than running something modern or built for this type of racing, where you can actually win the overall. Some like it, some don't. Again, apples and oranges, which is why having both types in the same race and trying to grow numbers is going to prove to be a real challenge for NORRA without alienating either group.


    I don't know. I'm just glad I am getting to experience it while it is still a fun race for anyone who does not live in SoCal or the southwest and who does not desert race for a living. And I hope I can still run it again on my SL350 when when I'm done with the rally car fun.

    And is far as pre-running; It doesn't bother me a bit if everyone else does it, because I am there for my own experience. You can prerun the course 10 times and still have a mechanical that puts you out on day 1. Again, the guys looking for the overall win are the ones who will prerun a multi-day, fun-paced rally, which many pro riders told me is similar to their pre-running experiences in the first place :1drink
    #44
  5. bajaboundmoto

    bajaboundmoto Been here awhile

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    Roger has been in Lima since the 26th...


    And I'm wondering why there's the subject of air support. I know the McMillins had a fixed-wing 2 years ago but have there been others? Any helo's used at Mex1k? I don't think so.
    And as for banning ait support, no way would I ever suggest that unless the promoter had at least a few Helo's in the air. Fixed wing can only relay info via radio (just as McMillins did 2 years ago when a biker hit a ranch truck). So if teams have a helo that's great because there's a possibility it will come in handy to another team. Even the JCR helo has stopped to check on non-team riders at the B.1000.
    .
    #45
  6. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    I am talking SCORE and any other OFFROAD RACE !!!
    They talk to the rider all the time just like a spoter at NASCAR!!
    They drop of parts in the middle of no where!!
    They fly the back up rider around !!
    AIR SUPPORT IS BULL SHIT!!!!!!!!!

    unless you are LOADED
    It just holds the poor man down ! lol !!
    #46
  7. pedrodepacas

    pedrodepacas Adventurer

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    #47
  8. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    People who are against air support simply don't understand what they do and commonly think the main reason they are there is to cheat.

    Mc Million's air support is known by the handle "Beagle" and it is a large private jet. Beagle was a huge part of the communications required to get those involved in the accident between Laguna Chapalla & El Crucero at this last 1000 flown back to the states. Beagle has been a major resource after dark which is huge because private aircraft can not land after dark any where in Baja without having had filed an IFR flight plan. You can land after dark with special permission at Loretto or La Paz and you pay to keep the people in the tower. If you don't have that special permission and you have to set down after dark, you lose your aircraft period.

    I've been hanging with the the big Trophy Truck teams since the class was formed. Most of those teams have had air support of some sort. Veneable Rough Riders had an Aerocomander that "loitered" at 15 to 20k ft agl purely for communication just like Beagle does now. In 1991 I flew air support for Robby Gordon in a Cessna 182 with a pilot, co-pilot and me talking on the radio in the back seat. Householder's Heli pilot is a hart surgeon and many teams have a EMT in the chopper. All of them will go to an injured racer as long as they can fly.

    Banning air support is short sighted and narrow minded at best.

    BTW, no team has yet to use air support at NORRA. We'll see how good NORRA's support is when someone finally get hurt out in the middle of a stage. Maybe everyone should be carrying SPOT Trackers and they can push the "Help Mr. Wizard" button to save their ass.
    #48
  9. Motorfiets

    Motorfiets Long timer

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    So I was really excited about going but I think I may have to pull out... :cry

    this race is during finals week :cry
    #49
  10. neduro

    neduro Addict Super Moderator

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    Just a question about the 690 class- most Ktm 690s don't displace 690. Are they eligible for the class?
    #50
  11. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    2007-2011 are 654cc, while the 2012 and 2013 are 690cc. If you're reading the rules, it appears that only the 2012 and 2013 qualify for the big bike class. I mentioned this last week actually.
    #51
  12. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    I wouldn't expect the NORRA Tech inspectors to know this, you would be at the mercy of someone in your class protesting you, if you tried to slide by.
    #52
  13. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    I have the big motor in my bike, so I'm good. I'll just crash anyway, so no worries:lol3
    #53
  14. drc42

    drc42 Rally Dreamer

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    So, getting back on topic of this years rules.

    Anders, last year the rules explicitly mentioned that if you don't finish a day you may still race the next day. I certainly assume norra will still do this but I didn't see it in the rules.

    Also one thing that bothered me a bit last year was somebody who had issues on a stage and took longer than the bogey time would get their actual time, then somebody who failed to finish that stage and took the bogey would get a faster time. Seems fixing issues and finishing should be rewarded.

    Happened to me and I think a couple others last year. Didn't make a difference in the standings but certainly could some year.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    #54
  15. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    2007-2011 KTM 690 will race in the MO class then
    #55
  16. Anders Green

    Anders Green NASA Rally Sport

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    Yes, of course. The interpretation is simply "since there isn't a DNF penalty listed for it, you can't get a DNF for it".


    I agree... but. ;) Having that kind of a rule would lead to situations where racers would, in the field, elect to skip final controls of stages for "strategic" reasons. I put strategic in quotes because there's not going to be a huge difference between getting a 9 hours stage and a 12 hour stage, when everyone else did it in 2.5 hours. However, skipping controls leads to a big tracking problem on the race staff's end. It's the unintended consequences of those sorts of rules that are the problems.

    If we divide the competitors into two groups, "lucky bastards" and "survivors", this scenario won't effect the "lucky bastards" who manage to complete the course without large incidents. They'll make up the top half of the field. It's extremely difficult to make a rule set that provides a very solid and correct set of operational rules for the L.B.s while simultaneously being optimized to handle the philosophy of what we would like to encourage in behavior for the survivors. It generally ends up with complicated verbiage and reasoning that's not very clear, leading to loop holes and letter of the law versus spirit of the law confusion.

    Hey, I owe you a call too... around tomorrow? :)

    Anders
    #56
  17. BAZZER450

    BAZZER450 Been here awhile

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    It would be great to have a long Baja Rally that had bike routes by bajaboundmoto that Hogwild made roadbooks for. So much country and the Altar dunes in Sonora.[/QUOTE]

    plus 10 on that !!
    #57
  18. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    Concerning trackers IRC makes one that Lou Peralta used at his Alta Vista events in Cal city last year and the year before that (i had ran a few) and they are exactly like a beeper and will track inside a backpack.. just a thought about tracking..

    How bout a inspection night super special ... super special.. super special somewhere near the Hotel or out on the playa.. inviting all of Mexicali!!

    Also wondered why no $$$ break on bike entries or at least earlybird incentives ???
    #58
  19. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Looks that way
    #59
  20. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member

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    I personally whould rather race a 55hp 5** whatever verses a 60hp 654. The much lighter bike
    is easier to ride, hence less tiring. On the other hand the larger heavier 690 will just plow thru stuff rather than being tossed about like rag doll. What say the masses.
    Is the 690 in the MO class an advantage or a disadvantage?
    #60