NORRA Mexican 1000 - 2013 Rules / Updates

Discussion in 'Racing' started by Anders Green, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    COME ON !!!!

    Its a Trail ride!!!!!! that you could get LOST on !!!!!!!:deal
  2. bajaboundmoto

    bajaboundmoto Been here awhile

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    Different bikes. At Mama's is a basically stock '83 xr500. That bike was found almost new just before the '10 Mex1k, even stock tires on it, not even broken in. They've raced it a couple times now.
    My '88 xr600 was a $500 complete mess we basically did a ground-up on.
  3. mtothef

    mtothef Been here awhile

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    funny, that's exactly the conditions (lost, trail ride, baja, only on a mountain bike) that led to my drinking arm being so sorely compromised...
  4. Anders Green

    Anders Green NASA Rally Sport

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  5. Anders Green

    Anders Green NASA Rally Sport

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  6. az45

    az45 Adventurer

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    Will they be printing the road book for the roll charts? I'm thinking of going off the deep end and putting one in my car. There's no way I can flip pages, shift, eat tacos and hold my beer at the same time.

    Any suggestions on the equipment?
  7. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    you will have to tape the sheets together then roll it into the roadbook reader which can be manual or motorized from 250.00 up.. check rally management services
  8. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Be aware the roadbooks are not what is commonly known in the moto world as a roll chart. Roll charts are typically narrow (~2.5" wide), while standard roadbooks are 6" wide. The sheets in the roadbook will likely be 11" long, and will need to be torn out of the book and taped or glued together end-to-end by yourself. Hopefully by next year they will be provided in rolls (for motos and single-seaters), but we'll see how that goes.

    The 2013 roadbooks will look much like this one from 2011 (though cut to 6" wide):
    http://hogwildracing.com/baja/mexican1000/2011/MotoRoadbookDay3-2011Mexican1000.pdf

    If you're using the roadbook the whole way, it's worth getting a moto sytle motorized roadbook holder. If you're only going to use it (in a single-seater car) for the one short section where GPS tracks will not be provided, then you should be fine removing all but those 8 or so pages, and just rip each page off as you finish with it. The binding should be along the top edge. REALLY, all you need is a piece of duct tape to hold the 8 page booklet in place, and know how to reset and display the odometer in your GPS!
  9. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    Is it going to be like last year Perforated ring binding
  10. baja-chris

    baja-chris Adventurer

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    Have you actually tried doing this without a roll chart in a racecar with no windshield at 90 mph? There is substantial wind, just like dealing with loose pieces of paper on a bike at speed. Also I'm pretty handy with the odometer reset on my gps but at race speed I will cover anywhere from 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile during the process, that is if I don't crash out while fumbling with it. Of course I could get a navigator to do it but that would take the fun out of the event and giving my wife the boot because she is not a navigator would not go over well.
  11. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    I think that's the plan, but you never know what NORRA will do!

    It will be difficult to do 90 mph on the secret section, but I get your point about the wind. A bit more tape, on the edges, would probably do it, but you might want to test that ahead of time. I have a multi-page 8x10 paper map on my moto "dash" that catches some serious wind (sometimes 90 mph), and all I have holding it is a clipboard style spring clamp at the top and a thin short bungie across the lower half.

    If you're only using the roadbook for the short "secret" section, the only time you would need to reset your GPS odometer is while you're stopped at the start of a SS, waiting for them to flag you off. Actually that's the case for the start of ALL the SS's (they all start with mile 0.00). So, you don't need to do it while moving or "at speed".

    If you're using an up/down adjustable rally style odometer, and you're doing longer sections where your odometer may drift off a bit, then you may want to adjust it on the fly. The bike guys with that setup do it all day long, with thumb switches. You don't even have to take your eyes off the road.
  12. baja-chris

    baja-chris Adventurer

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    I am glad to hear the rally notes for the secret section will be based on zero miles for the start of the special and not zero at the start of the secret section. Thanks for the heads up, I will zero my gps odo at the start of the special and make sure it's overlay is on top with large font.

    And I'll also commit the notes to memory before the special. 20 miles can't be that hard to memorize. I hope.
  13. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Approximately 8 pages times 7 entries per page equals 56 navigation points. You have an EXCELLENT memory if you can remember all that!
  14. az45

    az45 Adventurer

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    The page is too long, I dont have a place to put it where it viewable at speed. Last year I made notes and taped them on my cars visor.

    Im ok with the motorized "Road book holder" at 275.00, but Im not sure about the odometer at the same price. The switches didnt look steering wheel friendly on either part. I can use my GPS odometer, but as Chris said, you cover a fair amount of ground trying to reset it.

    I'm not doing this for the 20 miles section, I think having the road book would be an advantage over the whole race. In a single seater, you're off the gas during any indecision which ads up over 1200 miles.

    Is there a standard milage where there's a reset? I only remember a couple last year.
  15. baja-chris

    baja-chris Adventurer

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    Was only going to remember the notes for the 20 mile section. Or are you saying there are 8 pages just to cover 20 miles? I hope not, would be more like orienteering than motor racing. I really don't want to go rallying, I want to go racing and the NORRA stage format is fantastic as is - it's a better format than SCORE or any of the other desert series. Why on earth are they pushing this roadbook onto people who don't want it? What is wrong with it being optional? Oh well. I'm still going to have fun - in spite of the damned roadbook not because of it.
  16. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    The road book is what makes it fun
    It makes you think!!!!!!

    Any one can go fast from corner to corner using GPS and ribbons
  17. az45

    az45 Adventurer

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    True, but the one who does it fastest wins. Some go for the ride, some go for the race.
  18. baja-chris

    baja-chris Adventurer

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    Yes, I suppose you are right. We could also text while hot lapping Laguna Seca. That would make you think too! How about we work some crossword puzzles while racing? That would put a new spin on it.

    Sarchasim aside, out of the 150 or so motorcycle racers in a typical SCORE event, most of them are HOURS behind the lead few so it must not be THAT easy for anyone to go fast with GPS and ribbons. Maybe if you find it too easy you need to go faster??? Or maybe I'm out of line because you are one of the aliens that gaps the mere mortals.
  19. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    Not an alien just a old fat guy !!
    Who has had a lot of FUN racing in Baja
    The last 30 years
  20. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    You can cut each page in half, making 16 pages (more pages for longer stages). The binding may be a challenge though! That's partly why a moto roadbook holder is handy.

    I don't think there is a perfect solution, but there are some ok solutions. The roadbook motor switch is just a toggle switch, up for forward and down for backwards. You don't have to hit it exactly at each intersection. Just hit it at some point between navigation points when you're a bit less busy. The roadbook window shows 3 navigation points at one time, so you actually don't have to advance it but once every 2 or 3 nav points.

    The odometer is a different deal. If you do the WHOLE event using the GPS odometer, you will struggle because after a while it won’t match the roadbook. Then you’re sort of screwed as far as using the roadbook, . . . until the next reset to 0.00. To use the roadbook properly, you need an odometer that can be adjusted up or down on the fly. The GPS can’t do that. The roadbook does have the mileage between each nav point, in small print. So, you could reset to 0.00 at EVERY nav point and just use those small numbers. But that’s a real pain, and not at all recommended. If you don’t have a good roadbook holder (mechanical or human) and an adjustable odometer, your better have your GPS with tracks ready! For the SHORT secret section, your GPS odometer should not drift off much, so you should be fine there.

    You'll have indecision moments with a roadbook too.

    I think the roadbook is reset to 0.00 at the start of every Special Stage, and probably at the start of each transfer section as well. I don't recall any resets mid-stage. So, you should always be stopped at those points, making it easy to reset.

    The 8 pages are for the secret section ONLY. I put a few more nav points in than usual so you guys wouldn't get lost. But it's also an area with LOTS of intersections and different ways to go. So it will indeed require your full concentration.

    That's something I'm sure you and some others will tell Mike P. What I don't understand is why there is ZERO complaining about it on RDC? I expected a huge negative response there. What's up with that? Do they not understand what it means so they are afraid to say anything, or they don't care one way or the other, or there just aren't any of those who would care actually reading RDC?

    You guys are bringing up many of the right issues, so you're going to have an advantage over all those who start to comprehend it only after they are already in Mexicali.

    This is hard to understand until you do it completely without a GPS. There's that element of unknown that I'm sure was with the original Baja racers back in the first couple of years. Once in a while you question yourself if you went the right way or not. And you use all the tools you have with you to answer that question. Half of those tools are on your dash, and half are in your brain. Putting those two sets of tools together with success gives a unique sense of satisfaction that just isn't there when you follow a line on a GPS. It's an added level of adventure, competition, and challenge.