Oh dear! (Ignition wire prob)

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by viola-tor, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    So I had to replace the key/ignition column tamper-proof bolts (they rattled out), and after I put it back together the bike was cutting out/killing. Traced it to handlebar position, then traced that to the wires coming out of the bottom of the ignition column. I was able to ride home, but can't turn the wheel very far or I kill the whole system.

    Sure enough, one of the wires has become cut somehow:

    [​IMG]

    The green/black one:

    [​IMG]

    There are three or four copper wires hanging on, but most have been sliced.

    No problem, right? I borrow a soldering iron from the neighbor and go at it. Should take five minutes, right?

    Good to go, RIGHT????

    [​IMG]


    Wrong... Turn the key: Nada, nuttin'. The bike was off when I was doing this, and I checked the fuses, then RE-did the soldering. Again nothing, no click, no dash, no nothing.

    So what on earth have I done and how do I undo it? I'm supposed to leave for a multi-day ride tomorrow...
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  2. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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    Did you check the Main Fuse at the Starter Relay?


    This probably would not affect the Aux Starter Relay behind the Dash?
    #2
  3. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Is that in the glove box? I checked all the fuses in there, with special attention to "Ignition / Fuel Pump" and "Power Relay." They both are fine. Are there bigger, badder fuses behind the headlight I don't know about?
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  4. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    I know its a stupid question, but: red kill switch is in run position, right?
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  5. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    No, not stupid at all! We've all been there... But yes, I triple checked it, and bike in neutral (but even so the dash should boot up even in gear).
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  6. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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  7. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    Then I would check the 30amps fuse once again, just to be sure.
    If it's okay, maybe you should look inside the ign. switch, maybe something got loose in there..

    Also this looks identical to your problem:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327430

    edit: this 30amps fuse is on the right side, beside of the battery, accessible if you fold down the sumpguard.

    This is what you should be looking for:

    [​IMG]

    edit2: its under this:

    [​IMG]

    EDIT3: Pictures are from the H.O.W. :)
    #7
  8. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Thank you for the pictures and everything! :clap Now I know, this is news to me! I've now checked the main fuse, it is still good.

    Thank you also for this link, I'll put it in here for the discussion:


    Oh man, I certainly hope this isn't my problem... Opinions? Is there a way to test the ignition switch?

    At least it's happening in the yard instead of the North Rim...
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  9. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    Then check battery terminals, wiggle (is that the correct word?) the cables going around the steering head (when ignition is on), and see if power comes back?

    I've also seen somebody who had a soldering came loose in the ign. switch, and it's not a big job to pull it apart, and you can see if anything got loose inside (if you don't want to pull it apart, maybe it's enought to wiggle the cables, to see if there is a contact problem inside (while key is in run position).

    That's all of my ideas:)
    #9
  10. aurel

    aurel Cheese&Wine!

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  11. aurel

    aurel Cheese&Wine!

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  12. Dusty

    Dusty Long timer

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    Hey V, do you have a volt meter or test light. I would check to see if you have power up to the cut. If so than it just may be your solder job. Then I'm sure you know what to do then...
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  13. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    I've taken it down to here:

    [​IMG]

    I can't figure how to open the bottom where the wires enter. There's a few press tabs, but they don't appear to be user serviceable (like break the thing getting it open). The jiggle method worked BEFORE I attempted the solder, but after: not a glimmer of juice (obviously I was hoping for the opposite!).

    The collective wisdom of this place is amazing! Aurel channeling CP and Pyndon to viola-tor... Amazing. No problem is a new one with all the gnarly adventurers around here. If it can be broken we'll find a way! :deal :lol3

    My fuse box checks out, dirty, but everything there. I will keep and eye on it!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Okay, I admit I'm pretty much a total idiot at electrics. So to do a test light I put one wire to the offending ignition wire (just south of the cut) and ground the other and see if it lights up?
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  14. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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  15. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    It's openable without making any damage, would be easier with 3 or 4 hands though (have to push the press tabs with a screwdriver for example, while trying to pull the whole thing apart).. I've did it on my 640, which has the same ign. as I believe. It's not easy, but doable :) However try not to make a hole on your hand during the process:)

    BTW If I were you, I'd give the starter relay + connections a good cleaning:) - and with a continuity tester it would by easy to check whether you have the same problem as Aurel had.
    #15
  16. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Didn't look too bad once I got inside (seems like a great way to impale one's own hand, opening that damn thing!), but gave it a cleaning with Q-tips and alcohol.

    [​IMG]

    Looks pretty good as far as I can tell.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    These connections are all pretty bomber, nice and solid (I assume the blank/hollow one is supposed to be that way? No loose wires going in...)

    [​IMG]http://www.advrider.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=16712695


    Snap it all together, turn the key... DOH! Still nuthin'.

    Cleaned the main fuse box as suggested, all looks good there.

    Got a hold of a multi-meter, did a continuity test on both sides of the soldering, it reads "0.00" (which is what you want, right?). Is the green/black wire to the neutral position sensor (neutral switch) if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly? WHERE IS THE OTHER END OF THIS WIRE???

    I'm running out of bullets... Going to darkness wrench mode! :evil
    #16
  17. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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    I think so...I bypassed mine and here's the process:

    Ground the green-black wire at the connector for the gear selector switch (#2 in the photo below). Down in front of the rotor cover on the left side of the engine). This will allow the ECU to provide ignition to the coils no matter what gear you are in, whether the kickstand is up or down, and clutch in or out. This will eliminate any possibility of one or more of the "safety" devices malfunctioning and killing the ignition. It will also allow the starter to work anytime the button is pushed And your green neutral light will stay on always. But, as I said this is not for "casual" use, but rather for emergency situations only. Like as a quick and easy way to bypass a failed safety device when one craps out in the boonies and you just wanna get home.
    BTW, arrow #3 in the photo points to the sidestand switch connector where ABYSS's permanent fix is to be made.
    [​IMG]
    http://www.ktm950.info/how/wotf/wotf.html

    Is your Battery at Full Charge? Baffling why this is happening to you....but hope this helps.
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  18. Dusty

    Dusty Long timer

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    Did you turn the switch on when you tested the wires.

    Dang, I guess if it was me i would cut out the solder and just splice in a bit of new wire and give it a quick test before soldering or heat shrinking. I think your digging in deeper than you need to. There is sort of an art to correctly soldering a joint.

    Start with the obvious.
    #18
  19. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    This is good. I've already disabled the sidestand switch, problem is I can't get the connector to release, it's too tight in there, I'll have to pull the bars, tanks, etc. Maybe try in the morning. Batt. has a charge, not sure if it's full, but I rode it for 30 miles or so this morning with no problems. Multi-meter test at main fuse read 15.--, so that sounds right, right?

    Question: As it says this ground is "not for casual use" and only to get you home to fix it right... What would fixing it "right" be in this instance? Replace any faulty wiring? That pretty much means dissasemble the bike...



    Yes, ignition switch was on when testing. I'm getting continuity reading from both sides of the soldering/splice.

    Start with the obvious, you say? I'm all ears... :ear Is there something I'm missing? I'd LOVE for this thing to roar to life any minute!

    Here's where we leave it tonight after 10 hours:

    [​IMG]

    Headlamp isn't cutting it, try some more tomorrow.
    #19
  20. DeeGee

    DeeGee I'm a Yorkshireman thanoz

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    I had pretty much the same (initial) problem earlier on this year. One of the wires at the bottom of the ignition barrel was broke, I did a temporary fix as I was out camping/riding with a couple of spade connectors. Try cutting and doing the same with the soldered wire.
    #20