Oil-ATF

Discussion in 'Trials' started by rotorhead511, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,493
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    I am just glad that my post wasn't over the top, I almost deleted it, as I read it for the 3rd time, groaning that (oh boy, this will pi$$ someone off, tho I dont mean to). Kind of glad you got it, and that you understood what I cant put into words sometimes. that feeling like I want you to know it is not like some posts where some guy jumps in and says "try this" that those in that area of whatever it is, says "never heard of that."

    I also commend the knowledge you have, I would expand on that, to learn more myself but that would create a post that is bigger than I can keep my ADHT mind on track for.

    Nice to meet you both, lol. Motorhead and Kellymac.
    #21
  2. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,283
    Location:
    nm
    I agree certain oils were made for a specified use. Most of the disagreement on oils for the gas gas stems from problems of friction plate swelling. The early years of the pro are to blame. Everyone was confused and scrambling to find solutions. For those that have no clue(you were not involed with this fiasco) we changed to thinner steel plates as the plates swelled. Instead of wearing the friction material grew. You did not hear that one in any oil seminar I`m sure.
    There are other reasons automotive oil is used now. Or should we say 4 stroke, instead of 2 stroke transmission/clutch.
    The newer pro`s actually lube the mains with transmission oils. That blows the crap out of which oil to use.Trials bikes work better with as light as velocity that we can get away with. Name one oil maker that makes an oil specified for trials engines. We usually ride around at 5-20 mph for short periods of time and change oil often. Being most bikes take less than 500cc one bottle is good for 2 changes. Not a sport the oil companies are making money on. So there is no great standard on oil.
    For more fun why can we get away with 100:1 and not to many other engines. Hmmm because we ride slow and put little use on our motors in reality.
    Mitch I like your choice of oils too, for a newer bike!
    #22
  3. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,283
    Location:
    nm
    Any how your bike called for 5w30 not 10/40. Most ran ATF dex 3, some preferred type f. Anything will actually work. You will notice the difference in the clutch action. Change often and the worst(It`s a spanish piece of crap, they all break everything!) would be a new clutch pack. Good luck and have fun.
    #23
  4. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,493
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    I didnt see this question, my bad.

    Here's what we know. the bike and manuals from gasgas comes with motor oil in the transmission/clutch area (all the same area oil wise). Yes, I am suggesting he use it in his transmission like I do, at only a suggestion. They widely known alternative was ATF. Anywho, I like the yamalube better than ATF of any flavor, well except one...

    *** I used GM autotrac 2 transmission fluid, for a 4 year period, at least up until 2 years ago, I think it was. BUT, GASGAS UK thinks they had preponderance of evidence, that particular oil was causing problem with many cluches on man bikes... They "had" a bulletin on uk's gasgas page somewhere, but I cannot find it now. So, when that came out and to our attentions, I also weaned myself off that stuff. BUT on at least 6 gasgas pro models I owned, I Never had a problem with that oil, but I am not one that will go back to $7 per quart oil, and against what GG UK believes (uk has more riders/bikes than USA, I think). So we tried a few other options, and like the Yamalube. I probably shouldn't have given my parts/mechanic's secret oil, LOL.

    Oh, and BTW:
    just because Yamalube "remarks on the label, that it is great for snow mobiles" as far as they are concerned, it is just marketing wise, this means little, other companies bottle up 0/30 tell you it is for lawnmowers in cold climates? Never the less... I use "sewing machine, lightweight oil" for many things, like on many other devices, from RC cars, to general purpose, oiling... Doesnt have to be a friggin "SEWING MACHINE" that I use it on... ya know. :freaky

    If you are going to put the GASGAS TRIALS BIKES into a harder USE than our easy little "trials competitions" are going to put them in, then you need to pick a better duty oil. I say if you live and RIDE in the desert ON the equator, and plan to riding something like the "DAKAR RALLY" on these things, then you might need 20/50 in there to combat the way heat thins the oil? I dont know this but surely someone would know by now.

    If you are in the states, probably get by just fine with ATF or 0w/30 motor oils, in trials modes.

    How hot is it in New Mexico on trials days? It has been 106+F, at one trials this past summer here in Kansas, August I think it was, but that heat is a humid heat, causes more problems to riders than bikes... But I dont know, if it is 115+F in New Mexico, but dry... which is worse?

    FWIW, and to start more arguements... I use a additive, water wetter (or its competitor) in my radiator with my 50/50 antifreeze mix.
    #24
  5. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,283
    Location:
    nm
    Sting, I don`t know where the NM rant came from. I thought I said I liked your choice with the yamalube. What`s up?
    #25
  6. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,740
    Location:
    Dubuque, Iowa
    It's 2F here with a foot of snow on the ground. What kind of oil should I use?
    #26
  7. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    950
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    In those situations, I prefer to use Home Heating Oil.....:1drink
    #27
  8. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,283
    Location:
    nm
    Actually in the summer months we ride in places like Taos ski valley, Sipapu ski resort, and Lake Fork canyon. All of which is over 8000 ft. Nice cool mornings and just slightly warm afternoons. Our beloved San Ysidro is basically off limits in the summer months. It would be like riding in a preheated oven being all rock! Not to mention the rattlers!
    #28
  9. motorcyclemark

    motorcyclemark Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    174
    Well after reading all this I decided to try some Yamaha 5w30 Utility oil for quads. Its not the snow mobile oil, previously had been running Napa brand atf F type. Was told by the guy behind the counter that it would take a thousand dollar order to get the snow mobile stuff (don't know whats up with that). Anyway my price on the oil was just four bucks so it was a not a deal breaker. After a short ride now I have bad clutch drag, this is on a new bike with less than 10 hours on it.

    The type F atf feels a little to grabby especially in first gear and was looking to cure that with this oil. My main concerns were smooth clutch action and better overall longevity for the motor. Looks like I'm headed back to the atf but will try the dextron III stuff this time.
    #29
  10. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,740
    Location:
    Dubuque, Iowa
    Or a good preservative oil.
    #30
  11. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,283
    Location:
    nm
    KY is the leading lubricant in cold winters!
    #31
  12. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,493
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    I wasn't ranting about NM, I was saying if you ride in more un-hospital conditions (then told everyone about HOT conditions I ride in, then I thought about how hot it 'might be' in NM? :bow Shit if I know...

    I've been going to go there, then I somehow get you to misread/misinterpret a post and get an attitude with me {really a rant?} so then, I don't want to show up and get 'hit', :eek1: lol.
    :lurk
    #32
  13. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,493
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Seriously? Do you do like they do up north, with your cars? I have friends that lived up top of Minnesota, they ran 5/30 in cars, during summer, 0/30 in winter? or something else? if you do that you might need to do that in clutch, but I dont think so.

    Cold weather, technically changes nothing, the engines still have to warm up to 180 and run right.

    Bigger problem (IMHO) you will have is fork oil, in extreme cold. I have no clue, but I would bet you could make the forks work better with thinner (lower viscosity) oils for the winter. I have seen that done. nothing like stiff ass front forks on slippery ass rocks, to take the bike and fling it out of your cold friggin eskimo-gloved covered fingers... HA HA HA.
    #33
  14. NMTrailboss

    NMTrailboss Team Dead End

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,496
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Sting,

    In NM, most of the time through the winter months at San Ysidro will be in the 30's to 50's and will get up to maybe 80's to low 90's by May, but generally very low humidity. In the summer months as lineaway said, we usually start hitting the mountain trials spots in northern NM to escape the heat and temps will generally be 70's to 90's with the usual afternoon thunderstorms possible on any given day which gives us some humidity but not as bad as east coast areas. San Ysidro will be in the 90's to 100's in summer with the heat reflecting off the rocks pretty intense so we usually avoid that area until it cools a bit in the fall again.
    #34
  15. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,493
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Mark, how much oil did you put in? as in HOW MANY CC's???? I use closer to 370 cc's WHICH "fills the sight glass on the PRO MODEL transmission cover to half way up the sight glass, when the bike is perfectly perpendicular to the ground, when both tires are on the ground, NO STAND.

    EDIT: BTW, You check this after you start it, and shut off, letting the oil get "equalized" in the transmission and clutch area

    5/30 is what factory says to use, but they say 400cc, I believe.

    I use 0w/30 because I can easily... and I think 0w is closer to ATF? plus it is semi synthetic. Order from rocky mountain ATV, or something if the locals dont have it, else I dont know what to tell you. Your kind of faced with what I face, if I want to use some of the exotic oils out there.

    Luckily for me, right now, the Yamha guy I deal with has a great interest in selling the oil, he uses it and sells to several trials riders...
    #35
  16. DerViking

    DerViking Shred

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Black Bill Park
    Cheap ass Dextron from the gas station down the street... Easy and always available. Change often, all of the modern oils are fine, and I'll bet 10 times better than anything available 20 years ago.
    #36
  17. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,493
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    NMTB...

    NO USE YOU GETTING IN BETWEEN "LINe no WAY" and me, as if what I posted was a rant about NMTA? Jesus Chrysler...

    But, I'll stand corrected, you boyz are riding in AIR CONDITIONING compared to half the year out here, 3/4ths the year in OK and TX then, lol. I have driven to san diego a couple of times via 40, I guess I thought NM was as hot as AZ, or eastern Cali, that's my-bad.
    #37
  18. motorcyclemark

    motorcyclemark Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    174
    Sting, I have been using a separate measured bottle and putting 400cc into it. After filling the motor I would say there is about 20cc left over in the bottle, so 380cc into the motor. It does appear though to have 3/4 of the sight glass full after running and allowed to settle. Only reason on my part for being so fussy about all this because I intend to keep this bike for a long time and want it to last. Went to Cycle Gear yesterday (only place that was open on a Sunday) and bought a bottle of Redline 10w30 motorcycle specific oil to try. Their price is ridiculous but if it works out I know it can be sourced at a much lower price.

    So site glass wise will try a little less and see what happens. I still think a motor oil or transmission specific oil will be better than atf in the long run.
    #38
  19. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,283
    Location:
    nm
    On another forum, redline was being bragged on. They were using the 80w 2 stroke tranny oil.
    #39
  20. motorcyclemark

    motorcyclemark Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    174
    Ya, the 80w Redline transmission oil with shock proof was my first choice but stupid gear did not stock it. Looks like it will be a few days before any of the shops will be open so might just wait and get the 80w to try.
    #40