OK --then what can we do to bring the sport back ?

Discussion in 'Trials' started by 2feetdown, Apr 12, 2014.

  1. 2feetdown

    2feetdown Been here awhile

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    Geez there aint much use discussing no-stop surely it will be over with in a year or two as everyone comes to there senses. The NATC has listened to the will of the riders and i admire them for it is allowing every one to stop for at least two years 2 years. The local clubs around me are very sensible and i dont think would ever change even if the natc did.

    No stop has no reasoning to it. What can be done while I am against no-stop i am not against changing rules a bit or changing bikes a bit decreasing time limit, adding a seat to bike. I am amazed that the greatest form of any Motorsport is so obscure.I have no ideas but some some of you have some marketing skills lets hear it. What can be done worldwide, nationally, locally or in my backyard?
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  2. sideup

    sideup Been here awhile

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    Bring trials back? I have been riding trials on and off for 30 years both nationals and club level. Trials it seems will always be a fringe sport enjoyed by the diehards. It really never was an "in" sport and many promotions and marketing shots have been tried. In recent years trials riders have gained some respect due to endurocross.
    But even with this Trials in the U.S.A. is a specialty activity , with specialized bikes. Rule changes come and go over the years. I have gone through many rule changes over the years, and will continue to ride whatever the rules are, it really doesn't matter to me. It is all for fun.
    Accept the reality of the sport, it is a great sport to learn total control of a MC, it is fun, but it will never be a popular main stream sport. In some ways that is not a bad thing.

    #2
  3. devo2002

    devo2002 -Devo

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    No umbrella girls :cry
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  4. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

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    I wonder if the E-Bikes will help change the landscape of the sport - at least in suburban areas that restrict land use to the point where there's very few places to ride.

    When I was A kid, we hopped on our bikes and were gone until sunset. Trails all over the place. Those same areas now are packed with houses and the few state parks and recreation areas don't allow motor vehicles, even trials bikes. Even a cheap heavy bike is no good if there's no place local to ride.
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  5. Rockcat

    Rockcat LDA

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    That wasn't a discussion.
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  6. 2feetdown

    2feetdown Been here awhile

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    Yeah maybe i should not have said bring trials back its not completely dead and never will be. When i rode in 1978 there were 16 novices at one club event 30 miles away now I have to drive 200 miles to closest club and there is maybe 3-4 novices. In 1978 there were 7 clubs in my state now only 1. This year we have to drive 3000 miles to ride the minimum number of nationals not too bad but have to drive 2200 to ride the minimum number of regional event many of this years class winners including the highest class wont be the best riders it will be who can drive the furthest as many are like me and just have to skip all the regionals and ride at home
    . Im not sure we want as many riders as other motosports but a few good men would help with the logistics. I just figure it might be a good idea to come up with some constructive ideas just in case going to non-stop like the FIM wants somehow doesnt bring in more riders or even divides the sport and makes it worse. We have seen the worldwide economy improve and here at home i cant even hardly get on the 4 lane because of all the additional traffic and still have less riders. I think we need to do something constructive but not have the thought lets do something even if it is wrong.

    As far as continuing to ride you bet i will but a lot of it will be at home with very little exposure not because of rule changes but because time and money limits the travel. Some take great pride in being able to afford to travel great distances to ride I am not one of those. Many times i have drove 800 miles round trip to ride a trials on the same weekend there was a hare scramble 1 mile from my house but harescrambles just doesnt do the trick for me. I read a post on trials Central from a rider in Scotland who says that trials is more popular where he is at than mx or enduro and is the only dirt bike sport you can compete in every weekend without having to ride much distance.
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  7. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    I would love that! Now how to make it happen... :norton
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  8. prsdrat

    prsdrat Been here awhile

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    As one of, perhaps, 8 or 9 'observers' at the recent Trials de Espana here
    in SoCal, I was not impressed with no-stop. Granted I am not a trials
    rider, just a fan. But, two years ago at the Nationals, I found the
    old rules much more exciting. I don't think some of the drop-offs could have
    been accomplished under no-stop without serious injury. I am afraid that
    Trials here in the US will never be really popular, because here speed rules.
    My grandson competes in D38 desert racing and when he suggested that
    the course become more technical he was basically told to go race somewhere
    else. Even when he pointed out that in District 37 ( a hundred miles north)
    the average speed was 45mph whereas D38 it was 70+. D37 had virtually
    no injuries whereas D38 had "Life-Flight" or paramedics hauling racers to
    ER every race. By the way, he won the number 1 plate this year, but now
    in protest refuses to race D38 and concentrate on EnduroCross.
    #8
  9. 2feetdown

    2feetdown Been here awhile

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    One thought i have had is this. For me and my son to ride the nationals it takes a lot of time and money. for us to ride our regionals because of changes made requiring us to attend more events even further away you just about have to be able to drop everything weddings funerals ect to win even if you get first every time you ride. When i leave I have fun and am around a great bunch of people but also if i stayed home i would someone would come over and ride as we are forunate enough to have enough national quality stuff right in my back yard.

    So in my case 1 less trials bike is ridden that weekend if i go to an event. I could take the money and time spent and maintain an extra bike(s) for potential riders to ride. While this wouldnt work for everyone but in my case might.
    #9
  10. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    A good start would be convince a major U.S. importer, with good dealer representation, that already builds competitive Trials bikes, to make those bikes readily available to U.S. dealers and customers.
    Send emails.
    #10
  11. jonnyc21

    jonnyc21 Trials Ninja

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    I have my plans... the hard part is I don't expect it to happen quick but want quick. I will keep building on the plan and work on things tell I figure it out. :D
    #11
  12. 2feetdown

    2feetdown Been here awhile

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    Honda???
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  13. 2feetdown

    2feetdown Been here awhile

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    Honda???
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  14. IndyChizzle

    IndyChizzle Inspired by Trevor W

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    My Background:

    I participate in competitive pistol shooting (USPSA and Steel Challenge), and I think there is a good parallel between trials and these sports. Since I started competing, I started my own competition at our local shooting club (Friday Night Steel @ www.IndyRange.com) where we now draw about 50 shooters per month for our monthly matches (2x / month in the Summer). We've used the competition to get more folks introduced into the shooting sports, to help pay for the range where we shoot (none of us can afford a place to shoot on our own), and to promote safe gun handling. Even if you're not a gun person, I think you can likely see the similarities that both are potentially dangerous sports, (if safe practices aren't followed), there is a high cost of entry, and that it takes a community to build a place to enjoy your sport.

    The Problem:

    USPSA specifically was at best stagnant and at worst a dying sport. The guns required had grown farther and farther from the stock guns you buy at the gun store, and if you wanted to be competitive, you needed a custom built 38 super Tangfolio with specially welded magazines (all a pain in the butt and expensive). I know of this, because I shoot with one of the top gunsmiths of the time, and he explained how the top manufacturers (Wilson Combat, etc.) were calling him to make custom guns that could compete. The downside of this, was that it made it difficult for normal folks to get started.

    The Solution:

    USPSA introduced some divisions catering to entry level, fairly stock stuff to help lower the overall price point for new shooters. The result was that it lowered the cost to try out the sport from ~$3000 (Open, anything goes) to ~$500 (Production, very restrictive on modifications). When folks found out they could show up and get started with their cheap-ish Glock and a $20 Fobus holster, it greatly changed the demographics. We saw a lot more "Production" shooters, and a lot more people bringing a friend because the gear was so much easier to buy.

    As somebody who is very interested in trials and wants to get started, I'm looking for the cheap "Production" class. Unfortunately, when I'm looking at bikes, I'm seeing a lot of classic Twin Shock stuff (people seem to want a price premium for them because they're collectible), and some beat up older bikes. What I wish I could find was the equivalent of a Glock in Trials bike. I don't really care if I'm competing at the highest level, I just want to have a bike that is competitive within it's own class, and that I can keep running (parts availability is important). Even if that meant that Trials made a class for your small displacement dirtbikes (much more common, parts plentiful) I think it would be a big step forward. If folks try lumbering through a tight trials course with their less-than-ideal dirtbike, I think they're much more likely to graduate up the ladder to a dedicated trials bike in the future.

    That's just my 2 cents, but I thought I'd pass along my perspective as a newby who would love to see the sport grow and be more available in my area.
    #14
  15. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    Very well thought out and written!

    Consider this perspective. There are already Glocks all over the place in the used modern or not-so modern bike market. Used prices have inflated with retail prices, but trials remains an overall low-cost sport with a low 'consumption rate' in machines and equipment, and fuel (unless you travel in an Ultimate Behemoth 43-1/2). One trusted old bike can serve well many years.

    80% of my trials bikes have been used. When I look for used, I seek depreciated but not ridden a whole bunch. I improve that machine, then pass it on to others.
    #15
  16. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    Absolutely true! Dust, speed, mayhem, chrome, noise, protruding plump tattoo'd body bulges find much resonance in humans. When it comes to speed, the mob likes to watch others risk death, and some of the participants themselves are adrenaline addicts for whom life must be on the edge. Some survive. Some don't. The mob doesn't really care. We 'modern' humans aren't that different than the Romans and their arenas.

    Most people that attend speed events are just ordinary, good folks. Heck I even like popping in my ear plugs and spectating in a Harley pagan fest every now and then. Folks all duded up to look bad, but are just ordinary folks looking for a diversion. Perhaps FIM was onto something when they put the blow torch on riders butts? That 'frenetic pace' I described elsewhere may be more of what appeals to the majority? I don't like it, and if I had a choice, a vote, I'd vote no. But if that is all I had, I'd adapt. Whether or not a blow torch will fill in some insufficiency in the sociology of trials is truly debatable.

    Trials will never, can never, be 'big. ' It runs a bit contrary to the majority. Those on the outside see murky, weird stuff going on in the inside. This hopefully healthy debate is about what is more exciting to spectators and more satisfying to riders? There is no one spectator or rider, so it's a hard debate.

    Perhaps the debate itself is harmful? I think the majority experience debate itself as a negative. As bad juju.. a fart in the room. We don't need to be in fighting camps, and become intractable (think middle east). So what to do? Go along to get along? Say nothing? I'm not at that point yet, but ultimately it's just a tempest in a very small tea pot, and as long as I can ride trials I will.

    Thinking positively, all we need to do is attract 0.00000237% of humanity and we'll think we're happening and huge!
    #16
  17. IndyChizzle

    IndyChizzle Inspired by Trevor W

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    As a total newb to Trials, is there something that is common and cheap that would be a good place to start for folks? I was joking with one of my riding buddies that the hardest part to getting started in Trials is going to be learning all the new names (Sherco, Gasgas, etc.) without having an understanding of the quality or price associated with that choice. If there was such a thing as a used "modern" (not twin shock) trials bike that I could buy for $1500, that I knew I could keep running indefinitely, I'd be all set.

    The perspective that trials is "low cost" reminds me of this discussion that breaks out fairly often on the gun range.

    Q: What do I need to get started in USPSA? I want to shoot fast, like Rob Leatham...
    A: Nothing much, just a 1911 by a good manufacturer ($1500-2000), some magazines ($35 x 8), hearing protection ($100), a range bag ($75), and a gunbelt ($150-300).

    Q: Ugh. Can I just shoot my $400 Glock and use my carry holster instead? It's already paid for.
    A: Yah, that's ok too, but you won't be as competitive.

    Q: Sweet. If I like shooting my less-than-ideal gun, I'll think about taking the plunge for something more competition specific.

    My point is that even if Trials is "low cost" as compared to some other hobbies, or to some folks' income, anything we can do to make an environment where the entry cost is even lower, will help get young people involved. If folks feel like they have to take the "$2000 plunge" just to give a sport a try, it's going to scare off all but the most certain of individuals. Without a buddy that can loan you gear and help you get started, trials seems like a pretty tall order for new people who just want to get their feet wet to see if they'll like the sport.
    #17
  18. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 44 years

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    Trials people are like vampires around new blood. If they think you are actually interested in trials, they'll come up with a time, place, and bike for you to experience, so you don't have to dive in and buy a new bike.

    If they are smart about it, they'll be very careful with you and very strongly urge you to take it slow and easy. This is a hard-to-learn sport that rewards deeply if you get past some initial mental barriers. One is watching a skilled rider make something look so easy and smooth, then trying do the same and bam! You're down and wondering what the heck happened.

    And once bit, you'll think , "Hey that nice used Beta, GasGas, Sherco, etc, is only $5,200!" Don't worry about any of them. They are all well designed and amazingly reliable. All parts available, if you ever need them.

    What often happens is, once you are bit, that formerly so-precious stuff, like guns or refrigerator-size bikes will suddenly find themselves in neglect and eventually for sale. My riding buddy is a long-term gun guy and has some refrigerator bikes. He's about burned a hole in Craigslist :clap and other venues. I've been surprised when he tells me what people will paid for guns these days. One or two of the arsenal for a modern trials bike? A no brainer :wink: And I see a lot of (sold) refrigerator bikes in your signature line!
    #18
  19. 2feetdown

    2feetdown Been here awhile

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  20. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    That's interesting. It appears that, in those days of No Stop Trials, the riders were given credit for stopping on top of a platform.
    #20