Operation: Battle Panda or: Getting the Airhead Ready for 2up Adventure

Discussion in 'New Zealand' started by igormortis, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    I’ve never named a vehicle before the R100GS. But it does seem to be a trend here and Penny, the lovely pillion, decided that it needed a name. She came home from roller derby training and told me about Battle Panda; a drill where you take hits repeatedly until you fall over. So what better than a name to describe the inevitable?

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6712264251/" title="IMG_7418 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6712264251_9d3449ca3d.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="IMG_7418"></a>

    Besides, it has a panda eye:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6712056353/" title="P1010854 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6712056353_89579c27bc.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="P1010854"></a>

    Also, you could argue that it’s fat, heavy, slow and ungainly. But Battle Panda with all its faults, will be taking Penny and I as far as it will let us. 2-up, loaded-up and pitted against any terrain we can put before it.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6712263473/" title="IMG_7417 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6712263473_ae1e0e30eb_b.jpg" width="1024" height="474" alt="IMG_7417"></a>

    We’ll see how we get on with that in due time. First I will do my best to prepare Battle Panda for the worst...
    #1
  2. Night Falcon

    Night Falcon Adventure NZL

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,518
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I think Battle Panda is quite an appropriate title for the o'll Bearmer :lol3:lol3
    #2
  3. Box'a'bits

    Box'a'bits In need of repair

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,448
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    So would saying 'About Time' be an appropriate greeting & beginning? :freaky
    #3
  4. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    Yeah, I’ll accept that. I think that was always the problem - what’s an appropriate beginning, if you haven’t started from there?

    So rather than try to catch up with what I’ve done so far, I’ll start with where I’m at now. After a 3500km round trip to the top of the country...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6712991797/" title="P1010410 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6712991797_3aef55493d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010410"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713024071/" title="P1010460 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6713024071_6ec54633c7_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010460"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713024953/" title="P1010463 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6713024953_77edbf3cc2_b.jpg" width="1024" height="682" alt="P1010463"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713025503/" title="P1010504 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6713025503_9456acbf3f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010504"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713032349/" title="P1010638 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6713032349_e38d2948c3_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010638"></a>

    Spot the imposter

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713026039/" title="P1010511 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7002/6713026039_112539a2cf_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010511"></a>

    ...some things need attention. Least of all the wash.
    #4
  5. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713092165/" title="IMG_0002 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6713092165_1d2f7311d2_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="IMG_0002"></a>

    Do you think something’s leaking? Noticed this about halfway through the trip. As a result carried gear oil with us and spent the rest of the journey mopping and topping up.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713096249/" title="IMG_0006 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7142/6713096249_a38b964ff7_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0006"></a>

    Yep, I think there’s a leak.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6713095709/" title="IMG_0004 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6713095709_e2475ecbe8_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_0004"></a>

    Current state of Battle Panda. Now to find out why...
    #5
  6. Padmei

    Padmei enamoured

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,797
    Location:
    Nelson New Zealand
    Awesome igormortis.
    Are you aware the initals are BP? Subliminal sponsorship perhaps.

    I ummed & ahhed about taking off a gaiter today to check for any oil spillage before the Dusty Butt. I wasn't sure if I could handle the results:eek1 I bit the bullet & pulled open the final drive one. There was a fingerpad worth at the bottom of one of the creases. I can live with that.

    oops there I go talking about myself again...
    Looking forward to more posts and...

    GO THE ROLLER DERBY CHICKS!!!:clap:clap:clap

    http://www.myspace.com/sistermaryjane
    #6
  7. Mark_S

    Mark_S Fair Weather Faggot

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,095
    Location:
    Kapiti NZ
    cool - another bike build thread :clap
    I don't know if your bike is a basic - but it looks like one (apart from the tank?) to my klr eye
    basic's are the sexiest airheads


    I hope your arent going to do a bush job like on those other airheads threads....
    #7
  8. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    Thanks Padmei. I am jealous of your pittance of a leak!

    Mark - she's not strictly a Basic, more dolled up to look like one. Not much in it though, it's essentially the same bike.

    The gearbox recently had some work done: Shorter 1st gear, longer 5th gear, machined output shaft for circlip and new bearings and seals. And it seems there may have been a problem with the output shaft seal...

    [​IMG]

    Actually, what's immediately obvious is that the machined "v" in the casing has been left open - ala the monolever bikes. They use this to vent their oil filled swingarm. Our Paralever swingarm, on the other hand, shouldn't have oil in it.
    #8
  9. Padmei

    Padmei enamoured

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,797
    Location:
    Nelson New Zealand
    As you prob know from being around is that not many mechs over here know about the different rear seals. I had 2 bmw specialists not know this. MD of course def knows his stuff!!
    As I have had both gbox & final drive seals done 'recently' I am still surprised that there was oil there. I'm hoping it was just left over from the last gbox seal replacement. Either that or I think that we should have preshaped the seal as per snowbums meticulous preparation.
    Either way the seal is pretty easy to do without taking the gearbox off.

    Did you find any damage to your gearbox shaft or any seperation of the gears as per Antons thread with your circlip mod? this issue is very interesting as Rob Farmer on ukgsers hasn't come across many at all over there whereas of course the seppos worry about everything that could go wrong. Unfortunately I don't trust the mech that took my gearbox apart & I can't remember if he mentioned if mine had been done or not. I will undoubtedly get it checked out by someone in the future.

    I hope you do a bush job on it so when I get to wellywood we can all be bushrangers:D
    #9
  10. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    Hadn’t heard about pre-shaping the seal. But I trust MD’s judgement.

    Come to think of it now, he may have instructed me to seal up the notch before installing the ‘box. I honestly can’t remember, but I do remember him talking about it at some point.

    We looked at the guts before the rebuild and machining. No damage to the shaft yet, but the bearing was showing heavy wear and M said it was good timing to have it done when I did.

    Did you just silicone yours with the seal in place?

    When are you coming to Welly? Maybe we can all get matching Ned Kelly helmets.
    #10
  11. advNZer?

    advNZer? Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,966
    Location:
    Wellington,New Zealand
    i dont know why but that bike looks the shizzle!These final drive/gearbox discussions make me nervous!
    #11
  12. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    Confirmed some measurements today.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6798709105/" title="P1010903 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/6798709105_29fe5571d7_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010903"></a>

    I've deliberated long and hard about what wheels the Panda will ride on, and I&#8217;ve decided to stick with the BMW tubeless rims.

    Originally I was going to use an HP2e front wheel, but the narrower fork leg spacing of the custom triples (R-dubb/HPMGuy) means it won&#8217;t work with the KTM forks that I&#8217;m going to adapt. So, let&#8217;s make the original GS wheel work...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6798710135/" title="P1010904 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7141/6798710135_69b07bc67b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010904"></a>

    Yep, an airhead axle fits. The right axle clamp (left in this pic) is a perfect fit. The left is 1mm larger, so a 0.5mm thick sleeve is required.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6798710625/" title="P1010905 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6798710625_f3c3b8cd0b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010905"></a>

    I&#8217;m using an axle from an &#8217;85 Monolever bike. The diameters along the axle are the same but the spacing is slightly different to the GS. I&#8217;m also using the Monolever spacers. 11mm for this side.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6798711181/" title="P1010906 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6798711181_8c40956f3c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010906"></a>

    ...and 24mm this side. The wheel is off center by about 5mm, so machining 2.5mm off this spacer should bring things into line.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6798711871/" title="P1010907 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6798711871_ce58f0165b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="P1010907"></a>

    I won&#8217;t tell you what the sleeve is here, but I will assure you that I&#8217;ll get a proper one made up in time! An extra 2.5mm here will bring this end of the axle out nicely, and close to where it would be sitting in an airhead axle clamp.
    #12
  13. Box'a'bits

    Box'a'bits In need of repair

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,448
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Good to see progress...:D Let me know if you neeed help, or want the name of that machinist now.

    Steve
    #13
  14. Padmei

    Padmei enamoured

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,797
    Location:
    Nelson New Zealand
    One of the issues I have with the GS wheels is that to get them looking good they have to be cleaned up specially and/or powder coated. (black rims are very sexy). If you use another type of wheel you will most prob get a shiny rim & hub to start with, & respoking them won't be an issue if they need doing vs the stock spoke pattern. Small issue really but one that I think about every time I look at my manky spokes.

    Keep it going.
    If I came across another project I would seriously look at raising the motor & raising the ride height of the bike (as well as stripping everything off it.
    #14
  15. advNZer?

    advNZer? Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,966
    Location:
    Wellington,New Zealand
    cool ...what brakes will she have,or do i have to wait for the apprapriate instalment?
    #15
  16. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    Brakes are being mulled over at the moment. I have a few solutions for a 320mm disc. I&#8217;m comparing options right now to see which is the most practical.

    Steve, I may take you up on that offer of help, since you&#8217;ve cut your springs before...

    I took the fork springs out today and did some approximate measurements.

    Length is 505mm and the spring rate looks close to 4.2N/mm using the bathroom scale method (!).
    I need to decrease travel from 300mm to the BMW&#8217;s 225mm, so 75mm needs to come off the spring.
    A 430mm spring is 0.85 of the original length, so the original rate divided by 0.85 gives me the new rate...(?)

    Am I right? This would give me a theoretical 4.9N/mm spring rate. Higher than the standard BMW rate (4.7 I believe) and higher again than a KTM 950 Adventure (I&#8217;ve read 4.8).

    This seems like a good starting point for little to no cost, and would help me determine if I&#8217;m in the right range.
    #16
  17. Box'a'bits

    Box'a'bits In need of repair

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,448
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Yes, that is the short cut for determining spring rate. Close approximate. I also tried to get spring rate calculators to check. These came out with a slightl;y different result (higher). Standard BMW spring rate is 0.48kgs/mm.

    Your thinking is the same as I applied, & I am happy with the resultant spring rate. Your nm would equate to approx 0.43/kg/mm (start) & 0.51kg/mm (finish), with the resulting spring rate slightly firmer than what you have now. Good given the expected use.

    When you cut the springs, mark where you want the sping to end & come back one spring turn. That will leave enough spring so that you can bend the surplus down, to create the new flats (effectively one turn of the spring).

    [​IMG]

    Heat the ends of the spring to remove the temper (propane / butane torch will do it) & that turn down, either with a pair of pliers, or by compressing against some wood. Then grind the new flats on once you are happy with the bends.

    I'm on leave at present, so am happy to pop around if you want a hand.
    #17
  18. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    I’ve cut my fork springs and disassembled the fork internals. As soon as I get some spacers made up I’ll see if I can successfully re-assemble them!

    In the meantime, I pulled out my perfectly good R100R muffler...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6868208861/" title="IMG_8107 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7049/6868208861_c94406de05_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_8107"></a>

    ...and cut it up:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6868214761/" title="IMG_0017 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7186/6868214761_c31cd7bf69_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_0017"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6868215363/" title="IMG_0019 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6868215363_6cea5011af_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_0019"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58374333@N07/6868215919/" title="IMG_0027 by c00300875c487ce28b95948225d005e0, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/6868215919_d68a2a3c69_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_0027"></a>
    #18
  19. Padmei

    Padmei enamoured

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,797
    Location:
    Nelson New Zealand
    Coooooome on you slack bastard.
    #19
  20. igormortis

    igormortis Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,414
    Location:
    London
    Yeah, I know. I could show you pics of scraping paint off the house, but that wouldn’t be too exciting...
    #20