Para-curious

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by Airhead Wrangler, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    what are you thinking in terms of shock set up? going vertical or diagonal?

    if you are going for an airhead bevel box, can you mount the shock in standard 100GS mounting points - but with a monster long shock?


    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
    #61
  2. Prutser

    Prutser Long timer

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    Last weekend some German HPN owner told me they charge €3000 for there swing arm.
    He also told me that with the 1100 or 1150 swing 250mm wheel travel was the max. But if you would like to have more you would have to use there swing arm.
    #62
  3. Chuck U Farley

    Chuck U Farley Mr 2 u

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    Airhead Wrangler, I'm going to be following your progress closely as I'm about to embark on the same project. I have the 1100 swingarm, driveshaft, diff etc as well as the coupler to connect to the airhead output shaft. I understand that there is an offset issue to deal with on the rear wheel.

    Keep us updated on your progress.
    #63
  4. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    Have a look at page 13 of their pricelist. They list the various specs of their swingarm options and their own welded swingarm has the same travel as a 1100 swingarm. I think the greatest limiting factor is the angles that the driveshaft can take so the swingarm itself isn't the limiting factor for travel.

    http://hpn.de/english/pdfs/Katalog_01_09_engl.pdf

    Just look at this monster: :eek1:eek1

    [​IMG]
    #64
  5. Prutser

    Prutser Long timer

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    I didn't even check there price list yet. That what I just told was info I got from a guy I spoke to on the Touratech travel event I went to last weekend.

    I think the restriction is not the drive shaft but the max angle the final drive can make in the stock 1100 or 1150 swing arm.
    The final drive touches the inside of the swing arm on min and max wheel travel.

    Their swing arm looks like a monster indeed :tb
    #65
  6. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    at the risk of asking a stupid question:

    could you fit a R1200 swing arm onto an airhead?

    if its good enough for a HP2, could work well on an 'HPN'
    #66
  7. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    bump

    is this possible?

    I know nothing about oil/hex heads, but was para-curious why this had never come up for discussion


    #67
  8. Rob Farmer

    Rob Farmer Long timer

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    The 1100 Swinging arm fits straight into a mono frame but is a different width to the paralever swinging arm. You have to weld a small spacer to the left hand side of the paralever frame to take up the slack. and then tap through with a 20mm 1.5 tap to keep the support for the swinging arm pivot.

    The offset on the rear wheel is approximately 20mm which is where the 20mm figure mentioned above comes from.

    I was putting this together a couple of years ago. You can see the offset using unmodified standard parts. The 1100 swinging arm is considerably longer than the standard paralever one. If you fit the 1150 swinging arm it's only slightly longer than the paralever setup.

    Getting the wheel pulled into line is the hardest part, everything else is pretty straight forward and deceptively easy. Though you will need to make a decent bracket for the top shock mount. You end up with a very high machine that I thought was very unwieldy. I sat on one of the bikes crazy Ivan had built and it made my 1150 GSA feel like a toy which defeated the object of having an airhead. You may as well run a stripped down 1100GS

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #68
  9. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    was asking about mounting one of these 1200 bad boys onto an airhead. Had just never seen this come up as a topic, maybe for good reason...

    [​IMG]
    #69
  10. Rob Farmer

    Rob Farmer Long timer

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    I'd have though it was possible Ras and would like to see it done. The 1200 final drive is it's biggest weakness though so availability of second hand ones may have put people off before.
    #70
  11. CrazyIvan

    CrazyIvan Vonkentrekker

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    A few reasons:

    • The swingarm bolts are not in the center of the gearbox anymore, but offset.
    • The final drives are more likely to fail, where the 11XX ones are basically the same design as the paralever ones. (bearing wise).
    • There's also only very tall gear ratio's with the 1200 final drives. The R850's and early R1100RS bikes have got the same ratio as the R80GS and R100GS.

    BTW, Increasing suspension travel and keeping the bike the same height is also very difficult...
    #71
  12. Chuck U Farley

    Chuck U Farley Mr 2 u

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    Here's mine finished, with the 1100 rear end.......

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #72
  13. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    Especially if you want to keep ground clearance when fully compressed. Can you tell me what length and stroke you used for your shock? Have you measured how much travel you get on the rear?
    #73
  14. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    :ear


    + is there any appreciable difference in seat height on an airhead between using an extended monolever (+100mm) and a 1100 para lever?

    wheel base should be a bit longer for the 1100 swing arm, but dont know about ride height
    #74
  15. Dmaster

    Dmaster Been here awhile

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    I've been into this lately.
    I came to this conclusion:
    If you keep the torque arm setup stock (use the R100GS mount) you can get 260mm MAX.
    Real wheel travel, 0 from ground to 260 from ground.

    If you fuck around with the torque arm setup you can get over 300mm, but you'll have the "jacking" back :evil
    If you fuck it up a bit different i think you can get 285mm wheel travel with the no jacking system still working.
    But i did not tested this setup yet, so it may be bullshit :wink:.
    #75
  16. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    260mm is what I should get from my TAG monolever, but have to believe that you get a better quality experience on same quantum of travel from a paralever - because of lack of jacking

    Are you in effect saying that the torque arm is the real limiting factor, not the shock setup (vertical vs diagonal?).

    It does not look like there is any difference to what type of bevel box you go for as the torque arm mounting on both airhead and oilhead bevel boxes seems the same, see image below



    what do you think you need to FU in order to get 285mm?




    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
    #76
  17. Dmaster

    Dmaster Been here awhile

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    No not exactly what i ment.
    Because of the para lever construction the long swing arm doesn't really work like a long swing arm.
    The drive shaft is limited in its max angle thats the limiting factor around here.
    But the final drive is moving the opposite way of the swing arm, if the swing arm goes up the final drive go's down.
    Nice for the anti jacking, but not so nice for wheel travel.
    I made some drawings before i got into surgery:
    Standard setup (as good as i could measure all things) (hard to read but this makes 260mm travel)
    (Shock mount is probably on the wrong spot but i didn't care at this point.)
    [​IMG]
    My current setup (as close as i could get) (hard to read but this makes 285mm travel)
    [​IMG]
    If you look close you can see what i did.
    [​IMG]
    #77
  18. Dmaster

    Dmaster Been here awhile

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    I think you should be able to get more out of that setup.
    Whats limiting factor (besides the shock)?
    #78
  19. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    I was told approx 260mm by Ezio at TAG, this number was confirmed by Desertpistons that has been playing with these swing arms for a while. I have not measured my setup to confirm.

    I think it is capable of 270+, but there is an element of conservatism in order to ensure a safety margin against busting the alu swing arm.

    how much travel do you get out of an "HPN" style extended monolever? 240-250mm?
    #79
  20. Ras Thurlo

    Ras Thurlo Desert Lion

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    changing tack for a second to another paralever:

    100GS paralever - apparently has 185mm of travel (taken from Anton Largiarder's site)

    Is the 100GS paralever really that bad? (compared to the approx 250-260mm of extended monolevers and 1100 paralevers)

    can this be improved, without materially increasing risk of breakage? (probably not based on all threads discussing this paralever)
    #80